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Tuesday, 30 June 2009


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Congratulations, in advance. I don't have any advice but will follow your breastfeeding #2 saga closely. I too had supply issues and took the domperidone which helped (and your advice on that and other topics was so helpful). I guess my only thought is that if you wait a few days to see, before starting the meds, your body may surprise you, and i mean surprise you in a good way.

After Words

(No advice, just sharing.)

We aren't Jewish, but my son is circumcized. It was an agonizing decision, frankly. I believe the hype about some of the health benefits (in my son's case, there was the possibility of kidney issues and the data about circumcision, UTIs, and kidneys was compelling in his particular case). I was relieved that our second was a girl so we didn't have to go through the decision making process again.

Best of luck to you.


Best of luck to you - I'll be thinking of you on Thursday!

No advice re: breastfeeding #2 as I am a few months behind you, but as for circumcision the religious aspect makes it non-negotiable for us. I realize that this is spectacularly unhelpful to you, but I suspect the religion factor looms large for you. The recent ceremonies I have attended have been performed by pediatricians who are also qualified as "mohelim" (not sure of the plural exactly) and the little tykes have been anaesthetized to the point that I didn't even know when the procedure had occured. So if you are opting for a hospital procedure I suspect it will be even less traumatic than what I have witnessed, which was a far cry from the events I have attended in the past, with screaming babes. I hope you can decide and be at peace with your conclusion.


Congratulations for tomorrow, I'll be in London at the weekend so I hope it cools down a bit. Good luck with the breast feeding as well.
As for circumcision - I wouldn't do it unless medically necessary (too tight foreskin or whatever) but I don't have the religious thing.

However, wouldn't it be possible for him to decide to do it later if he wants to for religious reasons. More painful maybe but at least his decision?


I don't have any personal experience BFing #2, but I can tell you that from the research I've done in many cases your supply is BETTER the second time around because mammary tissue is the only type that regenerates. I'd think about waiting and seeing, but that's just me, and I didn't have supply issues at the outset, just later on.

Re: circumcision - we opted not to circumsize for all the reasons you mentioned. But we don't have the religious issue either. So not sure that I can help much with that issue.

I'll be thinking of you- best of luck!!!


Best of luck with everything! You'll be in my thoughts.


Breastfeeding, I'd probably wait on the meds, see what happens. I wouldn't want to take something if it wasn't necessary. Circ-my boys are circed, but if I had it to do over again, I probably wouldn't. We don't have the religious reasons though. They didn't seem to have any issues with it and I have watched a circumcision. The baby I watched didn't cry at all until it was over, definitely not in a coma like state, he was alert, just not crying. He did cry a little once it was all over, but stopped as soon as we picked him up.

For relgion though, we did have the boys baptized Catholic although Dave is not and I am non-practicing and don't believe the vast majority of the Church's teachings. Much for the same reasons you listed.

Betty M

I can't believe it has come round so fast - how exciting. I hope it all goes well and perhaps we will get one of those promised thunder storms to break this frankly sweltering heat. I hope the beauty place you are off to has decent air con!

Circumcision - my mother was all for it for religious/cultural reasons - husband refused point blank to contemplate it. I figure the boy can get it done later should he want to. Also given the general lack of circumcising in the British population he might feel odd being one of a few without having the whole panoply of observance to give it a meaning maybe?

Breast feeding - I would wait if it was me.


No advice on the breast feeding/domperidone, just my fervent wish that this time there are no issues!!!

We are opting not to circumcise our little guy even though my husband's family is (non-practising) Muslim, and my husband is circumcised. I think there might be raised eyebrows from the family, but we just feel that it's his body and it's not our place to make that decision for him when we are unconvinced there is any medical benefit.

Best wishes for a stress-free, complication-free, healthy delivery!!! Looking forward to hearing all about it! Also looking forward to hearing how Pob reacts to Baby Brother!


So soon!! :) happy thoughts sent your way!!

on the topic of circumcision... since you're not sure I would totally not do it. I realize a boy that gets it done later is going to go though it differently than a baby -- but I would hold on to the fact that it CAN be done later if he REALLY wants it done. I thought this was a really hot issue here but during our prenatal classes (3 yrs ago) I found out that only 13% of boys are circumcised in canada now. That's CRAZY low... most are obviously NOT doing it! Also -- you've heard that babies don't cry -- but SOME DO! my friend was beside herself as she heard her son scream at a day old :(

On breastfeeding -- with ZERO doubt I'd be trying again. I know I didn't have your issues the first time around, but without a doubt, for ME, I would need to try. What if it worked out beautifully? there is a possibility, no?

Looking forward to hearing the news of the birth of your son!


I can't believe it's time already! It feels like this has gone so quickly (not to you, I bet!). Good luck with the section--and I hope that the domperidone question is a non-issue. (If it were me, I'd wait to start, just in case.)


Best of luck!
For me, circumcision is non-negotiable religiously, but having been to many circumcision ceremonies, let me say that the baby is generally given a topical anaesthetic, and when you hear the baby cry, it is usually from undressing him, before the actual circumcision has taken place. The only ill effects I have ever seen is some crankiness a few days post the procedure. I don't know if that helps you at all...


Good luck with the delivery! I hope all goes smoothly, and I'm very happy that you're expanding your family.

We chose to circumcise our son (DH did all the research, I wasn't leaning one way or the other). We chose a pediatrician who would apply a topical anesthetic which certainly seem much more humane. He recovered well and didn't seem to be in any pain. He's 3 now and doesn't remember the procedure at all; it's a non-issue.

I can't imagine a circumcision on a boy who would remember the procedure, however. I imagine the recovery time would be longer and the pain would be greater. I haven't spoken with many men who remembered or regretted being circumcised at 1 day old. I have an ex who wasn't circumcised and never felt a reason to do so - his children are also uncircumcised.

Best wishes to you and your family whatever you decide. Have a great delivery! :)


Thalia... I'm so excited for you. I can't believe he's almost here!!

As for the circumcision, as you know I have just the girl, but I do want to tell you about my good friend B who had a baby boy last February. He has had TWO UTI's so far- which is normally very rare for a baby boy (unless they are uncircumcized).

Clearly B is just one story and lots of people have different ones. In the end, He will be fine if you have the procedure... and you know what? He'll be fine if you don't, too. Do what you're comfortable with.

And congratulations. I'm grinning ear to ear for you.

PS: Going to be in London for 17 days starting the 11th. I imagine you'll be out of commission so to speak, but if you get bored, email me!


Oh Thalia, good luck! I'm thinking of you.

I have no useful advice about breastfeeding and medication. I hope it all works out.

Sam was circumcised because his firstmother wanted it and it was her call at the time. Sarge and I were on board with the decision but after seeing how raw and painful it was for him for days afterward, I don't know if I could make the decision to do that again. Sarge turned pale when he Sam how Sam looked. I can say for sure that Sam was in pain during the procedure and afterwards. We slathered him in vaseline and tried to be as gentle as we could but it was still pretty hard on him. If we ever get lucky enough to have another, I hope we have a girl.



I am a dork.

The vital information in my first comment was that my friend B did NOT have her baby boy circ'd. He's finishing his second round of antibiotics to beat his latest UTI.


Am not Jewish, so we didn't circumcize our boys. FWIW, several hospitals here will no longer circumcize without painkiller as research has shown it does cause problems. That said, ask about topical vs. a dose of versed, or other methods. Thing is, you can't use topical afterwards on the wounds in case it gets in the bloodstream and the freezing wears off quick, so do ask about what to use afterwards.

A couple of Jewish friends of mine who ended up not circumcizing talked about this book because it has alternative ceremonies in it?


Good luck on that one....

As for breastfeeding, domperidone works pretty fast, like within twenty-four hours and your milk will not come in for 2-3 days, so maybe wait til then? The key is just to make sure he doesn't get any bottles in the nursery and to put him to the breast often. You just may not have any supply issues this time. You likely will know what to do as far as latch and even with a c-section lots of moms are fine. I think the key is getting enough help in the hospital while you are weak and recovering.

Have faith! We'll be checking back like crazy and hoping for news!


Our babies will be born just one day apart. I am scheduled for a section on Friday.

I didn't circumsize my son. It is strongly discouraged here in Canada by the medical community and that was all I needed as I had the same concerns as you. Having said that, if you decide to do it for religious issues, we know that millions of babies have been circumsized in conditions much less desirable than the ones we have today, and have been absolutely fine in the long run!

Hope you get to enjoy your day today.

Hairy Farmer Family

Oh God, poor you! Have inkling of what your sufferings are!

I have difficulty giving a measured response to the circumcision question; I'm afraid I sit firmly in the Barbaric camp. I'm not Jewish, however, so I'm admittedly unlikely to be getting my head fully around the issue. I'm - personally - sure that God will absolutely love him to bits, quite irrespective of how much skin his willy has dangling from it.

I know a couple of people who struggled like mad with Baby 1, and had an easier time boob-wise with Baby 2. Hoping that's you, too.

I simply can't believe you're term! I blinked and missed your entire pregnancy, I think. I'm so very excited for you, and will be thinking of you on Tuesday; can't wait for the first photo!


Good luck, Thalia -- I do hope all goes smoothly. As for circumcision -- we (my ex and I) decided to have it done for our son. No good reason other than my ex had it done and there was some vague idea that it was important for later that they match. Really no good reason.

Will be thinking of you, Junior, future big sis and your DH.


Congratulations. It's amazing that the end is so near. On whether or not to circumsize. I vote against, unless you really feel like it needs to be done because of religion. I don't have kids, but my BFF did not circumsize her son over 17 years ago. He's fine, and his daddy taught him proper cleaning methods when he was young so there was no health concerns.

Girl Detective

I echo everyone else who can't believe it's almost time. I'd wait on the bf drug and see how you do. I had a much better time BF with #2.

I didn't have my two sons circed, and almost wished I had something like a religious reason to make a firm decision. On the one hand, it is really cosmetic surgery. On the other, it is easier to take care of later, there's some evidence in favor of less STDs, plus you have a cultural stake in it (are your bros circed?) that makes the should/shouldn't question more complex.

Our ped told us to go with our gut instinct, and we chose not to circ. If we had we would have insisted on anaesthetic (some still don't use it; ouch).

My anecdotal experience: #2 had a UTI scare at 8 months and had to have an ER catheritization. Awful. Nothing since, but if there had been our ped said he'd need to be circed at that point. Also, both my boys have tight foreskins which require regular stretching by them, which means regular prompting/nagging by me. Drag.

There's no right or wrong decision though it feels fraught, so try to go with your gut about what feels right or best for YOU.

Lut C.

It's time already? How wonderful and exciting!

I'm too lazy to read through the comments to see if someone said before, but a week after my c-section I learned from the lactation consultant that there may be a delay of two days before your milk comes in.
The nice midwives at the hospital were blissfully unaware of this, and thus were no help whatsoever. All they did was tut-tut that I had no sign of engorgement yet. Grrr.
They should have given me a pump, pronto.

I hope BF is suprisingly easy this time for you.

Good luck!


my son was circumcised 2 weeks ago when he was 2 weeks old. i am not jewish but his father is and depsite my reservations (and at points anguish about the barbarism) it was not negotiable as far as he was concerned. In the event we saw an excellent mohel who is also a gp and who does the procedure on a private basis in his surgery in north london (am happy to give you details). He was extremely conscientous and thorough, used anaesthetic and offered excellent aftercare. As somebody who was totally opposed I have to admit that my son appeared to really have no discomfort afterwards and has healed perfectly. If you decide to go ahead i really think you won't find it to be as bad as you think.


Good luck! I'm so excited for you, H and Pob!

Can't really help with the circ, since I didn't have to cross that mommy bridge. I have heard that a mohel is vastly superior at the job than an OB, if that helps. Also, my college boyfriend's whole fraternity (including him) called the un-circumcised guy at the house "Sleeve," as a nickname. I could never tell if it bothered him. I know that the thought of doing something similar to a daughter just seems mutilating so why am I so wishy washy about the boys?? My unofficial tally of friends boys is about 50/50 here in the Mid-West.

Oh, and I'd probably start the Dom right away. Why not?

Mary Ellen

Good luck! I am so excited for your Thalia! I hope that all goes smoothly and I can't wait to see pictures!


Good Lord, can you really be due already? Blimey, time flies. Good luck, best wishes, happy thoughts, fingers crossed for everything as lovely as possible, and sympathy for your poor beleaguered bottom.

Can't comment on the breast-feeding, but circumcision-wise, if he does decide to become an observant chap, he can have it done then. I know three men who were circumcised in adult-hood - admittedly one for medical reasons (phimosis/, and two because they'd found God (one Muslim, one Jewish, go figure). I also know a couple of men who really regret that they were circumcised as babies, and who feel it ought to have been their choice, what happened to their bits. I'd err on the side of caution myself, but then I am utterly faithless despite background. In the end, it depends on how observant you are. If you aren't, then surely it should be your son's choice?


So exciting that you're going to meet your little guy on Thursday! I hope you get that last day to relax.

Since you don't seem to mind accepting circumscion advice, I read almost all of the comments and I just wanted to throw in my little response to all those people who say "He can always do it later" - my husband's entire relationship with my family was put in jeopardy by his unwillingness to consider this as an adult (and hence a multi-year debate about conversion and whether/how we could get married with my family participating). I would consult a mohel (and use one instead of a pediatrician, or at least a ped who also acts as a mohel often - practice is key!) about the pain issue, but strongly suggest doing it earlier if it's something that you think may have meaning to you/your son in the future.


Here in the US I was appalled to discover that people circumcise their kids. Even if the percentage of c'ed babies is decreasing fast, there are not medical reasons to do it (even the Academy of Pediatricians do not recommend it). For that reason, it is my understanding it is not covered by health insurance. As to the religious aspect, if you are not religious, as a friend put it "it is the easiest thing to do" because the kid can not protest and all you have to do is book a mohel. Easier than say keep kosher kitchen, eat kosher food, respect the sabbath, etc. If you are not religious, let it to your son to decide for himself. I am convinced all the Jewish rules were made for hygienic reasons (for example, avoiding shellfish because it could make you very sick before refrigeration was available). Circumcision certainly makes sense in hot countries with no access to clean water and soap. Otherwise, it is just cosmetic surgery (which has risks: not only pain, and there was an horrible article in the NYT that showed that newborns' brains register pain, but also botching it. It happens). Do a nice ceremony, but skip the snip!


Oops, I got so sanguine about C'ion I did not even congratulate you on the end of your pregnancy. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you for the birth. Good luck with everything.


this association is very vocal here in the US:


The Chieftain isn't circumcised, but if you decide to get it done, please give him some kind of pain medication.


Good luck, Thalia! I have no words of wisdom regarding domperidone or circumcision, but I will be thinking of you on Thursday! And try not to worry about all the things that aren't done yet. Somehow, eventually, they will get done.


I had hideous supply issues, i.e. none. Ok, well a few drops, after thte colostrum and the transitional stuff. I really am one of those 5% of women who probably can't bf.

I'm so scarred that next time around I am half planning just to formula feed because this time round I spent weeks on metocolpramide/domperidone, pumping everyhour, you name it and nearly drove myself mad with the fatigue, shame and guilt.

I do so hope you fare better and I'm wishing you a lovely smooth c-section,



another karen

best of luck - thinking of you all!



You want my opinion?

Circumcision: No
Although I'm not religious myself, Jewism always felt quite a nice religion. But what I don't get is how they can make boys or men feel somehow not completely acceptable because their parents decided to leave some skin on their privates.
It's not true that boys get UTI because of being uncircumcised, they get it when the skin is to narrow and the urine stays behind the skin.
The story women get cervical cancer because men are uncircumcised is not true either. It starts with a virus.
There are just no real good reason to do it, so please leave the boy's willy the way it is - like nature intended it...

Domperidone: No(t yet)
With the breastfeeding: Just see how you go! Your body has surprised you before, and you can always start if you really need it.


No advice on the dom, but lots to say about circ. We were VERY conflicted about this - for pretty much all of the reasons everyone has stated (no real health benefit, but religious qualms). We're Jewish, hubs is circ'd (though I think the "looking like daddy" reason is neither here nor there) and after incredibly much angst, conversations with family, and a lengthy chat with a very liberal Rabbi (who was still in favor of the circ) I stepped aside and put the decision squarely on hubs. It was, in the end, very important to him, and almost more important to his father, that we do the circ.

We used a mohel who is also a pediatrician (recommended by pretty much EVERY local Jewish mom I know) who used a topical anaesthetic, plus tylenol, plus the ritual wine. I cried way more than the baby.

Whatever choice you make will be fine. And regardless, I am thinking of all of you and wishing you a smooth and speedy delivery and recovery!


Just here to wish you good things! Cannot believe how time has flown. You'll all be on my mind!


Yay! I'm trying to figure out the time difference to know whether you're at the hospital already or heading there very shortly, but I'm far to foggy brained to manage it at the moment. I'm so excited for you to meet Junior. Re the circ, we're not Jewish and circed nonetheless because we're believers in the (admittedly small) health benefits. And re the breastfeeding, it should be somewhat easier the second go round if for no other reason than that you're experienced now and that might mean that you can worry less about it all.

So excited to hear news of the birth!


my father underwent circumcision when he was 24 years old because he was tired of
"problems" related to not being circumcised. I don't know what the problems were, but he grew up in a tropical locale and in his day air conditioning was rare.

A friend of mine was circumcised when he was fourteen because he was "always itchy."

I'm glad I had a girl because I don't know what I would've decided... but all the men in my life are pro-circumcision whether they are snipped or not. It does seem cruel and barbaric, and all the studies indicate it isn't needed -- but I don't know what the best answer would be.

You're in my thoughts!!


Hope all goes well, can't wait to "meet" Junior! I'll be thinking of you on Thursday.


Good luck with everything. It's a whole new adventure, for sure!


Good Luck, Thalia! Don't know if this will help with your (possible) supply issue, but could pumping right away, on top of breastfeeding help?

And really no advise on the circumcision decision. I left it up to hubs and he made the decision to do it after initially deciding no. Our doctor gave TK a topical anesthetic and some kind of concentrated sugar water which supposedly helped TK deal with the pain, but who knows? TK cried a lot at night the first week, but then I've been told almost all babies do that.

Can't wait to hear about Junior's entry into the world. Hope it all goes smoothly!


I'm so excited for you! Good luck!!!


I easily get upset about things that put my children in pain (even emotional pain) and I was surprisingly not too upset when my son was circumcised. He really didn't seem that bothered at all (cried very briefly and not completely hysterically) and healed very quickly.

WRT breast feeding - I found my supply was better with my son who was born two years later. I don't know why but I was much more successful than with my first (who latched extremely well but was starving). I still supplemented with a few ounces a day - he was a big baby and huge eater, but mostly nursed. I think some of it had to do with getting more sleep but who knows.


Also good luck!


I have no clue on the dom. We didn't circ, but had no (religious faith) reason to do so ... however ... as others have said, if he wants it, he can choose to have it done when he's old enough. At least, that's my take, given that you're conflicted. FWIW.

Oh, and congratulations on his soon-to-be arrival!


Just wanted to send some good wishes your way ... looking forward to hearing about Junior!


Re: circumcision- we, as a family, were against. I personally couldn't bear saying "Welcome to the world, little man! Now let's head for the tip with a scalpel, shall we?" It is very much a personal decision, but isn't it possible, if your son decides to be observant in future, to have a circumcision done later in life?


i'm late so i guess the little guy is here now, just wanted to say congratulations!!!! can't wait to see the next beautiful addition to the tinker family!!

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