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Tuesday, 07 August 2007


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All other things being equal, there's lots of evidence that vaginal is better than a C for both baby and mom. But since things NEVER are equal, with things like fibroids, breach, meconium, etc. I think it's important to frame it in terms of what's best given the situation of the mom and baby at the time.

If I'd had a C during labor with my first, I would not have ended up with a level 3 tear, vacuum extraction, re-do on the episiotomy and 4 month recovery. But if I'd had a C for the first, I might not have been able to have a drug free VB with my 2nd, and do the hardest thing I've ever done--ten hours labor, no drugs. Go, me.


Those 3D scans are just amazing!
She is beautiful Thalia!

My Reality

She is beautiful!


She's beautiful!! I remember that moment of pure amazement at the first glimpse of my babes during the 3d scans. My DS was the perfect mix of DH and I. My heart felt a million sizes too big and I began to cry. It's one of those moments I'll remember vividly for the rest of my life.

I'm sure her nose won't be funny at all. Keep in mind that 3d scans are notorious for distorting the nose. My babies have cute little noses despite the scans showing otherwise.

Good luck with her flipping. Have you checked out spinningbabies.com? They have some exercises you can do to help her flip.


How nice to hear all is well with you and your family. I love her pictures!

Don't worry about the scans - Bee was scanned a LOT during my pregnancy and he is just fine. One of our perinatal doctors said that if there was a problem with scanning, his kids would all glow in the dark - but obviously they don't.

Fingers crossed on the passenger turning. One never knows...

Erika, Plain Jane Mom

Wow, that 3D stuff is completely unreal. What a beauty you've got in there.

I had both my bio kids by c-section and you know it wasn't awful. Just be prepared for her to be whisked away and possibly watched in intensive care. I don't like to say things like that, but on the other hand no one told me that was a real possibility.

Both my c-section kids had fluidy lungs from not getting smooshed with a "regular" delivery. Both ended up fine, but they did have stressful stays in fancy hospital nurseries.

Ack, why am I saying this? I'm so sorry... I'm a total a-hole. But no one ever even mentioned it to me, and I wish they had. Please ignore me if you like :)


I think she looks like her beautiful mother. :-)

No belly pics?


Looks like she's going to be a beauty!


Oh, she's lovely!


I tried everything I could to get Ant to turn, but ended up with a scheduled C anyway. I do think the exercises are worth trying, and I would try the external cephalic version again if I were in the same boat (have your docs mentioned that to you at all?). That said, the scheduled C, once I had wrapped my mind around it, wasn't so bad. Would I rather have given birth vaginally? Absolutely. But I don't regret it at all. If that makes sense.

The 3D pics are amazing!


Dear Thalia, those pictures look amazing! I'm so jealous... I especially like the right one, where she looks like she's belting out "I feeeeeel good -- I knew that I would now!" It put a huge smile on my face.

Anyway, I'm glad for all your good news, but sorry it looks like it might be a c-section for you after all. But after that amazing scan, I bet it's got a lot easier to keep your eyes on the prize...


I understand what you mean about feeling a bit of a loss if you have to do a c-section. I felt the same way nearing the end of my pregnancy with the twins and I was really hoping to have the vaginal delivery experience since it was likely going to be a one time deal. I hope that she turns herself around so you can avoid the c-section. She's absolutely beautiful - thanks for sharing those amazing scan pictures.
I was kind of hoping you'd throw in a belly picture too...


gorgeous pictures! thanks for sharing them. Re: the breech position, there are some "natural" ways to turn the baby. I found this site:

Not sure it works, but it is worth the try! I am hoping for a normal natural delivery too but because my baby is so small, it seems like it is not going to happen. While it is no big deal, it is still a disappointment. I guess you are experiencing the same feeling.


Those pictures quite took my breath away! She is DARLING!


I'm glad I inspired such feeling. ;)

And you know, babies do turn on their own quite often, in fact, I've known a few who turned just before labour and gave their mothers quite the lurching sensation! (Yes, everyone was okay in the end.)

I would ask about external cephalic version to echo a pposter. Not every Doctor can do it, but most know someone who does. They only attempt it in hospital, just in case the baby decides jump into labour right away, but it's generally very safe and works well.

Amazing pics! The passenger looks so cute in there!

Jo in Utah

She looks beautiful to me! And real, a real baby. Wow. Ya know what is weird about fundal height? It really doesn't matter how big the mama is, her fundal height is usually 2 + or - cms for each week of pg, after the first 16 weeks. The fundus is the top of the uterus, and they measure from the top of your pubic bone, to the fundus. And you are right, because the doctor wasn't measuring all along, he doesn't really know if you have been measuring ahead the whole time. The breech tilt, (upside down mama, plus homeopathic pulsatilla really works well for turning babies)
Although, I will say that there is always a measure of emotional reasons why the baby is breech too. It usually has to do with the mama being ambivilant about something in her life. That usually needs to get worked out before the baby will turn. I know, it sounds weird, but after all the years in midwifery, really, really it is meaningful. Good luck!


That's so amazing. Mine never did get a good 3D scan. And we had well over 20 ultrasounds during my pregnancy, no worries.

I was in the unique position to have one of each type of delivery at once so I have to say I much prefer a vaginal if possible. Of course the best is the safest route. To me the C-section was a bit of a loss, but the general anesthesia was the big loss.


Who knew a yawn could be so utterly gorgeous? Yippppe!


She's gorgeous, Thalia! Congratulations...I'm so happy for you!


Coming out of long time lurkdom to say how amazing those pictures are...and how wonderful it's been to accompany you on this journey.

For what it's worth, my first baby was breech, doctor turned him on the Sunday morning and the baby broke the waters flipping back the other way in the early hours of Monday morning. Even then the specialist OB said the baby could still straighten into head down position once contractions started.

Anyway, upshot was that baby was born foot first after only 4 hours of labour and don't I know how lucky I was!. Reason for breech presentation? Bicornuate uterus...not possible to get into head down position.

Next baby? Transverse presentation...so C-section. And agree with Jenn..anesthesia was the worst aspect (but I really wouldn't have wanted to have tried to manage without it!).

Good luck!


Isn't it miraculous? In the true sense of the word. It really blows me away when I think that such perfection came from a sperm and an egg, and that you nurtured her over the months to grow into what she is, her own person, almost ready to be born.

On a less fuzzy note (get a grip, woman), and being definitely in the minority here, I couldn't care less how the babies arrive - their very presence is so utterly breathtaking and awe-inspiring - and I think, on reflection, I would rather have preferred a scheduled C-section than my own vaginal birth. It hurt like the very devil and I had irrational fears about the baby not being able to breathe (yes, yes, I know!).


My baby was breach so I had a c-section. I too felt a strong feeling of loss when I realised that I wouldn't give birth naturally. However, my experience of the c-section was good. The thing that I liked best about it was that I did not feel at all exhausted afterwards. Paralysed from the waist down, yes, but holding my baby and breastfeeding her only required action from the waist up. The half hour my husband, my baby and I enjoyed in the surgery recovery room was the most perfect of my life.
Before my c-section a lot of helpful people told me scare stories about things I wouldn't be able to do afterwards - that I wouldn't be able to pick my baby up, that I wouldn't be able to climb stairs, that I might not bond with her properly (yes, thanks for that one friend!). My experience was that these were all nonsense. I recovered really quickly.
So, yes of course I would have preferred a good natural delivery, but actually my own experience of a planned c-section was very good.


I am another one coming out of lurkdom- those 3D pics are amazing. I gave birth in Japan and they have scans every month/ two weeks there so I wouldn`t worry about having "too many" scans as they have one of the lowest rates of infant mortality in the world as they monitor everything so closely. My son`s face was squished against my placenta when we had our 3G so he looks a little bit like skeletor in the pics!


Oh Thalia, she's beautiful!! Thank you for sharing pictures with us.


oh my gosh, there's a person in there!! i bet you are just dying to meet her now, even more so after getting that glimpse. in due time, that is.

i have the same question about the fundal height and belly fat. they aren't measuring me yet, so how will they know where is stand when they do? i guess a lot gets left to the u/s these days. so glad everything looks so perfect in there!


Beautiful baby girl! I would have no problem with going for a section if breechW and first baby. Have done the VB x2 and I'm going with Alchemilla's comments above, in sofar as I couldnt care less how babies arrive either, as long as they're happy and healthy. On baby no. 1, I was induced, (42 weeks) no action, so more drugs - went from 0cm to 10cms in 90 mins, hurt like hell, got epidural, 2nd stage took 2 hours, ventouse. On no 2, spontaneous labour, first stage still pretty fast, second stage - about 20 mins. (Epidural that time). Got scathing remarks from some of the natural childbirth brigade for my epidural use - well, f@ck em. You try dilating in 90 mins. It's not a competition, there are no prizes for the most pain endured. only thing you want is healthy baby.


Hope that baby flips for you! She is adorable!

Lut C.

Looks like you've gotten plenty of advice already. Whatever it turns out to be, I hope safe and sound is all you'll remember after a short while.

Lovely pictures indeed.


She's gorgeous!!
I wanna see your baby bump!!
Glad all is well!!!!!

I had c/s with my 3, only vaginal birth was our stillbirth. I wish all could have been vaginal,but I think that was her special gift to me......I'd definately chose that over a c/s tho, if possible!!!


She's gorgeous. Thanks for sharing. I'm wondering what the doc's rationale for inducing you before term is?


First - She's gorgeous! Congrats on another look at the passenger :) I'm all about those scans. I have lost track of the number of scans this passenger has had, but I'm sure it's right up there with your passenger.

As for c/s and breach... you could always go for the external version. Right now I think Sam is still breach and if possible I'll try the version as a c/s just doesn't sound like much fun to me either. Ultimately getting the baby out healthy is truly what matters, but I'd like to give labor a try as well. Here's hoping yours and mine both go head down soon. Hang in there!


Oh as for measuring small or big - I doubt he can tell if this is the first time he's measured you. Also the position of the baby can distort things and with her breach it can be larger than normal. Hope that helps reassure you - though I'm sure the scan did as well :)


Do look into having an external version if she doesn't flip on her own. I had one with my breech baby. Also, it is possible for babies to be born breech, as mentioned above, and some doctors and midwives do willingly attend breech births. Good luck!


Lovely pics, she's adorable. I'm of the opinion that if the baby and you are healthy, it doesn't matter how they get the baby out! However, I do hope that you get the pregnancy experience you want, you've earned it.


Those 3D pics are amazing! How exciting!




I'm so happy to read this post. She is just a beauty, Thalia.


Thalia, she looks just like her mum.

Those 3D things are amazing - I remember wanted to push the doctor away and play with it myself back when we had the Buggins.

I'm glad you're doing well!


Oh Thalia, each time I comment on here about baby-related subjects I get all soppy. Thanks a lot! She's absolutely beautiful, and most importantly...almost here!

julie B

beautiful piks!

I had a c-section because of placenta praevia and after the inital shock of the fact wore off, i loved it. because you are given a date and a time, you can sit there and say `this time tomorrow..'. the whole birth day is very special from the minute you wake up, taking a shower, knowing that the next shower you take, you will be a mother, standing at the hospital admittal desk announcing that you are there to have baby....it was very euphoric. So I think if you have to have a c-section then just go ahead and make the most of it.


She's gorgeous!


Thalia...she is beautiful. Glad to hear everyhting is going well and I hope she changes her position!!


She is lovely!

I had an external version performed at 38w, and it went fine. It is do-able, the risks seem small, worth asking about if you are interested (I ended up with a c anyway after failing to progress, and was very sad about this for a week or so despite the joy I felt at the safe arrival of my lovely son. Rational? Maybe not, but there it was. However, as time has worn on it has seemed less & less important. I'm just saying if you do end up there it is OK to feel sad about it, but you may feel sad at first and still feel OK about it later).

However she arrives, I am on pins & needles waiting for her arrival!



Well, as you know, Bat Girl was breech from 24-ish weeks on, and with my uterus situation, it was clear by the time I hit the third trimester she wasn't going to turn "through means either natural or unnatural," as my OB put it. While I did mourn the loss of a vaginal birth at the time, I have no regrets about having a c-section, even though it may have contributed to some of the breastfeeding problems I had.

I had a conversation with another new mom about this (she delivered vaginally but had a rough time of it) and we both agreed that while the birth is a very important day, it is just one day in your life and your baby's life, and though it will be a loss if you end up having a section, all the other days will more than make up for it.

Betty M

She looks great Thalia! Hope she does the decent thing and turns of her own accord - it does happen (both mine took their time in turning) and I have heard all the kneeling etc stuff they tell people to do can have success. I was born breech but even back in '67 I counted as a "special" and was born with an audience of student docs and I haven't heard of many more up to date breech deliveries. Your lovely doc sounds like he could be the man to do a breech delivery though.


I had an 'elective C section' with my twins because number 1 was footling breech. I still have the feeling I missed out on an essential experience. All of a sudden the babes were just there. The transition of the birth is a blank page. For me labor feels as an important part in my life as a woman. If you possibly can, don't miss out. But if you have to, a c-section is ok. It will all heal.


Best wishes for whatever kind of delivery you end up doing. Flip, baby girl, flip!!!


When I was still pregnant, I was talking with a friend who had just had her 2nd c-section and how she was disappointed after her first as she really wanted a vaginal delivery. Then a friend of hers who is a nurse said "the only c-section you ever regret is the one you DON'T do." Those words echoed in my head after laboring for 21 hours when my doctor brought up the possibility of c-section. At that point I was starting to run a fever, the baby's heart rate was tachycardic and her head was turned face up so all I was accomplishing by pushing was making her head swell and getting her good and stuck. After 3 years of infertility and a miscarriage, I just wanted a live healthy baby and I didn't care how I gave birth to her. The c-section was not bad at all, my recovery was no big deal (I was back to running 5 weeks post partum), and best of all my daughter was perfectly healthy - but with a bit of a conehead. My approach going into my delivery was to be open to whatever happened which is good because not one thing went the way I thought it would!

Motel Manager

She's gorgeous!!

Echoing a PP, I'd definitely say to check out spinningbabies.com. Those methods didn't work for my breech baby, but I do know people for whom they have. I chose not to do an ECV for a variety of reasons, but I do know people who have done them successfully.

If you do end up with a scheduled C, it can still be a great experience. I do feel as if I missed out on the whole going-into-labor drama, but the birth itself was great - my husband watched the whole thing and narrated it to me. I couldn't see what was happening, and so when I heard the baby's first cry, it was as if my sense of hearing were heightened, if that makes sense. And while the first day of recovery was probably worse than with a VB, I have to say that the rest of it was easier than the majority of my VB friends have had. If you do end up with a C, just be sure to follow the guidelines and get up and walk as early and often as possible (and don't lift heavy things, etc).

But I hope all of this is moot and that she turns! Only 3-4% of babies stay breech until the end.


Oh, I just love her gorgeous little squished up face!!!! I'm thinking positive delivery thoughts for however she gets here. Any talk of attempting a version?

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