« The banality of suffering | Main | Endings and beginnings »

Sunday, 11 June 2006


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.


I had a wry grin as I read the second half of your post, as my mother gave me two clippings about the single embryo thing and practically begged me not to have two put back next time. I tried to bite my tongue, but couldn't help reminding her that my 1st cycle with the 2 embryo put-back had left me not-pregnant-at-all so I doubted that putting one back was going to improve the situation! The Miscarriage Association is brilliant - I've been going to a local support group for over a year now and it's a wonderful release when things are tough. I've made a couple of very good friends too. Will be thinking of you tomorrow - wish things were different.


I seemed to have ditched my hairdresser after she had a baby two months after I did. She's sweet and i usually like what she does with my hair, i saw her once between when Kate was born and when her son was, but I seem to keep making appointments at another place these days. It happens. And it sucks. And I feel guilty about it.

I hope you get through tomorrow. I mean obviously you will, but i hope that it is whatever is best for you. Where you either get through it and deal with everything later, or it is tear-filled and an emotional release. I don't know if you really have control over which it is. I seem to be leaning towards the "get through it" for Kate's birthday. We'll see what happens.

Many hugs for you both.


I have absolutely no assvice on the hairdresser situation. But I wish you the best in deciding.

And as for tomorrow...I wish I could find the words to tell you how I wish it hadn't ended this way. You're in my thoughts, always.


a rare thing indeed to find a decent hairdresser rarer still not to end up having to go somewhere else, a reason always comes up it seems.

Thinking of you my friend.

Mary Scarlet

I have never had any luck in the hairdresser department, so I haven't any advice. I am thinking of you a lot, Thalia. And of H.

AnnMarie@come undone

It sounds like you've got a compassionate person as a hairdresser. Her pregnancy will be difficult to handle as it progresses, but maybe this is the kind of therapy you will need? Sounds insane, but I made an effort to be near my very pregnant sister in law as much as I could. In a way it made me face my fears and I think it helped me be stronger (but I do fall off that wagon of strength quite frequently). Maybe think twice before avoiding her completely...but you know what's best for you. I'm just so sorry this has happened. I hope tomorrow passes peacefully and just allow yourself to feel.


No real good advice on any front (I hate getting my haircut- can't stand anyone messing with my head so much), but sending lots of hugs and sympathies. I know I shouldn't expect it, but I'm really hoping for the miraculously slow-growing baby ala Menita's Bingo and that tomorrow you'll see something that will make you happy.

Rachel Inbar

So sorry for you. I hope tomorrow offers you some closure. Keep your sense of humor. It really does help (I've been there).


It's nice that your hairdresser is being so sensitive about the situation. Perhaps it might be oddly healing to be around her, if you decide to stay with her.....weirder things have happened....

I hope that tomorrow goes quickly and as painlessly as possible. Know that I'm thinking of you and H and that I wish you healing and love.


No good advice from me either, although your hairdresser story reminds me of my 2nd IVF BFN in March of 2003. I decided my hair needed to come off, and I didn't have an appointment. I had been shopping around for one I liked anyway. So, of course, the woman I found to cut it on a moment's notice was 8 1/2 months pregnant. I made the best of it, and wound up seeing her for the next three years, until I moved, recently. At least she wasn't ever pregnant again...I think your situation would be hard. I've had friends that had the same or similar due dates and that's tough. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow...and sending you and H lots of love and comfort...

Lut C.

I wish you strength for tomorrow and endurance for the days ahead of you.
In a near future, I hope to be wishing you entirely different things.


What a shame about your hairdresser. I can totally understand why it would be difficult to see her and how difficult it is to find someone good. I've been floundering to find one since my last one told me the story of how her mother killed someone.

Thinking of you and H. I know tomorrow will be bad. I just wish there was something I could do to take away your pain.


Thalia, i'm still thinking about you often. and thank you so much for coming to visit me on my blog, even with all you're going through. don't think it goes unnoticed.

well, couple things. one, i think your current hairdresser sounds rather sensitive. she seemed to really get it. might just consider bucking the initial uncomfortable feelings and sticking with her. you know she's bound to continue being sensitive and hell, it's not like you can prevent yourself from seeing pregnant women around. just a thought.

also, about the Finnish study. well of COURSE they recommend 1 embryo transfer - multiple cycles of IVF costs far, far less for their public health system than managing high-risk pregnancies and babies born from multiple pregnancies who wind up in the ICU or sparing that, needing lots of extra hospital stay and care. their GOAL is to reduce multiples and reduce cost to the system. Like you said, this could be why the HFEA wants to do it, too. Now mind you, I am in California, and completely uncoveredy by health insurance for anything to do with ART.

i had just that exact conversation with my RE this morning, being at this exact crux. I said, "Assuming we make it to blast, should we replace two or just one?" we talked for quite a while about it - he's read all this research, knows it's the popular thing in the press right now, but he said with the miscarriage rate still quite high (20%) for each IVF blast, that he feels it's worth mitigating this number by replacing two. (one could fail and the other might hang on if both initially implant.) of COURSE there's a hefty risk of a twin pregnancy. but there's also a giant risk of another 12K (!!) down the drain to try this again by replacing only one. and he said as much as he likes having us around, he'd rather get us out of there if possible.

girl, take care of yourself. i hope that you have a delicious sushi meal this week with plenty of saki. you deserve it. and while you're enjoying it, ruminate on how strong you are. diamond at the core.


waiting line

ugh, I totally understand your dilemma with the hairdresser. and, I just don't know. if it were me, I may go see here once more. then, based on that visit, I would decide whether enduring another visit is do-able. it's your call of course, honey.

I wish there was something I could do to make this easier on you. my thoughts are with you.


Hmmm- tough call. I have left hairdressers for much less. I think you just have to go with your gut and never look back with regret. Easier said that done, huh? Well, I'm thinking of you and H and hoping that this too, shall pass.


My $0.02 of assvice on the hairdresser...if it was me, I'd probably find someone else, at least for the time being, and maybe consider going back several after she's had the baby. She sounds like she's a compassionate person who would understand.

I'm sorry for what you and H are enduring, and what you're going to have to go through tomorrow. I wish there was something that could be said to make it less painful. I'm thinking of you and H...


No advice about the hairdresser, but I know that it would be extremely difficult for me to deal with that situation.

I will be keeping you in my thoughts for tomorrow, as there are no words to make this situation any easier.

Carla Hinkle

The hairdresser situation is tough. On the one hand, she does sound compassionate. On the other hand, certain types of sympathy, however well-meant, always rub me the wrong way. "My heart breaks for you" is in that category. Though I know it is often said sincerely, somehow it just makes me want to gouge my eyeballs out.

But maybe try another session or two and see how it goes. At least she wasn't flip about it.

(Hope I wasn't too after re-reading this comment. Thinking of you much tomorrow.)

Carla Hinkle

Oops, sorry, I just saw L wasn't the one who sent the note. I still say give it a shot with her.


I don't think I could deal with the hairdresser, even though she does sound rather compassionate. Surely there must be other talented colorists around?

I'll be thinking of you on Monday.


I am at the stage in my career as an infertile and a bereaved parent where I can't stand for pregnant people to touch me. So I would probably switch hairdressers.

G and I are thinking of you guys are hoping tomorrow passes gently. Hang in there.


I don't blame you one bit about the hairdresser issue. In fact, I have a friend who got PG through IVF at the same time I did with IVF Number Two. Mine was a horrific ectopic and hers went on to be a beautiful ten-month-old baby girl. Even though I am happy about adopting, I nearly lost my lunch last week when I found out she just did a transfer for number two. I don't know that it is something you ever get over and it's perfectly OK to feel crappy about it forever after. Or not. I mean, a good colorist is HUGE. Whatever you decide is absolutely fine. And I so feel for H. I will keep him in and you in my thoughts.


I don't know about the research, Thalia. But I often wonder why they are keen to transfer so many in the states, and wonder if they just want to keep poeple using up their embryos so they have to come back for more and more fresh cycles.

That wasn't meant to be an offensive comment. :)

I really just think we have to be careful of the medical profession in general at all times.

Know what I mean?


Wish I had incredible words of wisdom, but I just don't. After I lost my first twins I just couldn't go back to my hairdresser who was so excited for me, so I went to a different one who I loved, now I can't bear to go back to her. So I went a saw a great guy called Bruce in Sydney but it doesn't help me back here!! No assvice at all.....
Despite having had 2 losses there isn't a manual or any incredible words of wisdom I can give you. The boy still grieves in his own way but I found the counselling we went to didn't really help, I wish he had gone on his own.
Sorry about the drivel, I'm just aching knowing what you and H are going through and wish you didn't.....
Thinking of you...


Dear Thalia, your hairdresser sounds very sensitive, indeed. Just to give you my observations, it's easier, in a way, to deal with pregnancies of one's nearest and dearest, because you see them all the time and you simply have to cope. With people you see once a month, or once every six weeks, the process is much more difficult, because there are noticeable stages and the jolting visual reminder comes at the same time as the greeting, which can cause great emotional turmoil. In a way it will be easier if she knows about the situation and can sympathize, but on the other hand she and you will probably think about nothing else every time.

I'm so sorry about this terrible heartache, Thalia. I'll be thinking about you today, and hoping everything goes quickly and without physical pain.


Back in the day, I don't think could have stood it. A great hairdresser is a great haridresser, but having that belly at eye-level for an hour or more...oy.
I will be thinking about you today. I am so sorry.


So very sorry, T. Thinking of you.


I have two junior work colleagues with babies bracketed either side of where mine would have been, and the 22-year-old assistant Brownie leader brings her baby, a month younger than mine would have been, and basically just sits there and plays with the baby instead of doing anything with the Brownies. I can't say I've found it any easier when the babies have been born. But at least your hairdresser isn't going to be bringing her baby in to the salon... one would hope!

I was put on to the Miscarriage Association by the hospital and they also told me about the (non-denominational, though held in a church in this case) memorial service we went to, which we found extremely helpful. But there are no support groups in our area, and they gave me the phone number of a woman 30 miles away who "is on the phone daytimes and evenings because she has to pick up the children from school". Thanks...


After my first miscarriage, I ditched my hairdresser cold turkey. I had told her on my last visit that I was pregnant, and she was SO happy and SO excited for me, that I just couldn't face going back and telling her it was all over. I never saw her again. And I really liked her.

So sorry you're going through this.


Susie's comment reminded me that I started a ballet class soon after the first time I found out I was pregnant (I had booked it before I found out) and had to tell the instructor, stopped going when I had the miscarriage and over a year later, can't face going back and having to tell her.


I wish I didn't even have to tell you about these books, but these were the two I found most helpful. Coming to Term by Jon Cohen is good for the medical side of things. For the emotional side, I like Miscarriage: Women Sharing from the Heart by Marie Allen and Shelley Marks. It's a bit dated, but the feelings stay the same. *hugs*


Could you go to one hairdresser fo colour, and to another one for the cut? I have done that bfre. I am still looking for the perfect one on both counts but maybe you could do that.

Also, I obviously don't know what I'm talking abt, you know your family better and I hope I won't add to the sense of hurt and offense - but is it possible that your family don't know what to say to you? When my best friend died in the tsunami there were many people who simply didn't know what to say to me, ever. I resented the comments such as "Well at least he won't get old and sick now", and I resented the silences, bcs anyone can say "I'm sorry" really, and the right words just don't exist, so they couldn't win, regardless. Somehow it's easier to picture them not knowing how to tell you they are sorry then not really caring or thinking abt how horrid it must be for you. And very often I too am left with surprisingly little to say, even though I know every little thing matters, bcs "I'm sorry" is so bloody little indeed.

But as I said, what do I know. If I'm being an asshole I apologise, that was truly not my intention. I hope your D&C goes smoothly and that you recover fast and can soon indulge in much wine and raw bits. I truly am sorry - but see above.


And this is why I should just say Sorry and leave it at that, I've re-read your family post and gah, talk of offsprings sound slike a bit too much if they knew your pregnancy wasn't viable. Feel free to knock me abt the head ad lib.


I am blown away by how considerate your hairdresser is, but it's easy to understand not wanting to see her. All I can say is do like me (ha) - no cut or color! It's cheap, no appointments, very granola, etc. (Okay, I really don't recommend it.)

I hope you make it through today in one piece. I'll be thinking of you.


Many hugs for the both of you. I am thinking of you today.


Thalia--I don't have any assvice about the hairdresser. I just want to say that you've been on my mind. Sorry that this is happening to you and I am keeping you and H in my prayers. Take care.


In my maudlin moments -- and I have a few -- I can also consider myself a victim of reduced embryo transfer -- in my case, two replaced, because I am (well!) over 36, and one frozen that did not then survive the freeze. I wish that third had not been frozen.
But while I wonder about that third embryo, and while I understand your suspicion of HFEA's motives, there is another way to consider this:
There seems to be a natural predisposition for carrying only one; this is supported by the fact that replacing two good embryos does not lead to twins as often as replacing two single embryos -- sequentially -- yields to 2 pregnancies; and by the fact that replacing three more rarely leads to triplets than two does to twins (and than one does to singletons), etc.... In other words, our bodies seem pre-disposed to chucking out surplus embryos in the very early stages. Not all of the time, but certainly some of the time.
Which means that if the freezing-thawing procedure does not too often destroy viable embryos (and that is the big "if"), it is true that you're better off replacing them one at a time. In other words, in your situation, had Dr. Candour agreed to transfer three, you might very well still be pregnant, as you suggest. But it is more likely, given the statistics, that you would not be (that you would not have initially become pregnant with twins), and that you would now have one fewer frozen embryo.
OK, I'm picking at nits, here. But you are so aware of the studies. I imagine that you are, as I am, someone who builds a bulwark of information.
In fact, the reason I am lingering on this site, and that I have checked in so often today, is that I am concerned for you. To wish you well today is impossible. But I certainly have been wishing you as easy a time of it as possible, and many easier days to come.

Mary Ellen

It sounds like your hairdresser is a wonderfully sensitive person, but I don't think that I would be able to deal with watching her advance through pregnancy. Please know that I am thinking of you today. Hugs!


Thinking of you today, Thalia.


Thalia, there are no words. I'm sorry that you & H are finding yourselves in such a dark place. It's just rotten.


Okay, I have the hairdresser problem solved, come to the states and visit ME... I've banned all fertiles from my salon(don't I wish).
Thinking of you in any case.


Your hairdresser sounds like a really caring person. I have to do a "me too" story. My hairdresser told me about her pg while I was cycling. I just went to get my hair done and forgot she was the last on my list of "it didn't work" people to tell. Staring at her belly for 2+hrs really didn't help giving that news. You situation is different though and harder to deal with. I don't know what to say. Do you protect your heart or your hair? I am a "hair" girl so I understand the dilema.
I am thinking of you today and so sorry for what you are going through.


Thalia, I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking about you today. There are no words. Be good to yourself.


Your hairdress does seem to get it and you know, she would probably continue to be sensitive if you stuck with her. You know, she probably wouldn't be the type of person to complain about the pg to you or say anything awkward. It is hard to know and as your appointment nears, maybe you will be clearer about what you need to do. I was in a similar situation as my best friend was 6 wks behind me and after I lost it, it was the hardest thing to watch her grow over the next months. Fortuantely, she was very understanding and never once said anything about my not calling her or wanting to do much with her for quite a while. She let me have my space and when we did see each other, she NEVER talked about her pg. When I was around and others made comments about how she was growing, she would shrug it off and change the topic. It meant the world to me because she made an effort to protect me from it. Even with all that, it still hurt and almost every time we left from seeing them I would burst into tears in the car.

There is nothing that anyone can say to make this any easier, but I did find that reading other people's stories took away some of the isolation that I was feeling at the time. The others have already given some excellent resources. Take care of yourself.


you are in my thoughts. I doubt *I* could keep going to the hairdresser. But I also stopped hanging out with my preggo friends as it was like self inflicting pain. Horrible, sure, but sometimes it is the only kind thing you can do for yourself.


sorry...hairdresser! I am typing this while lying down.

chee chee

I wish this didn't have to be so hard for all of us. Sometimes I just find myself getting angry about all that you (we) are going through. I am sorry, I know this comment isn't at all helpful.

I am so sorry about what you, in all likelihood, had to go through today.

k #2

No matter what you decide about the hairdresser...she has shown to be quite a sweet and sensitive woman. If only all women had a bit of that in them --including well intentioned moms who see one article and think it is the final truth. augh.... thinking of you today


You see, this is why I love gay (male) hairdressers. You don't have to worry about them getting knocked up. Best of luck, whatever you decide to do. Thinking of you today.


thalia, i wish there were something more I could say other than I am so sorry. So very sorry. It fucking sucks, and is monumentally unfair. Thinking of you.

The comments to this entry are closed.

September 2011

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30  
Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported