Thalia's fertility journey

Clomid moments

Thanks to Tania for this title. Although, I don't think I've had any (yet). My two BFs from college, with whom I had tea this afternoon, both commented on how calm I seem. I was a bit grumpy earlier, but then I'm frequently grumpy when anyone tries to move me off the sofa before 12 noon on a Sunday, so I cannot accuse the clomid of that. What I think I can accuse it of is making me have horrible acne. Does that sound right? I haven't been this spotty in years, it's really very annoying.

We did go to the party last night, despite me despairing for 30 mins about what I was going to wear as I am definitely too fat for most of my cool clothes. My husband told me I looked fab, and I think I did look good (spent some time on makeup which I normally never do), but it was fab in the one outfit I looked fab in, and the fab-ness was greatly enhanced by the wonderful Emma Hope shoes I was wearing (they look most similar to the pink Boho Fuzzies, here, but not exactly - I bought them a couple of seasons ago).

I'm so pissed off with myself for getting fatter again, when I worked so hard to get thinner, and I so enjoyed last summer feeling good in clothes I never thought I'd be able to wear. But I am not able to go through what I did last year to lose the weight given all the fertility stuff - at least partially because I don't want to rather than simply because I can't, but certainly the exercise schedule wouldn't work right now. Got to stop moaning and do something about it.

We had a good time at the party, and snuck out early without saying goodbye as my friend was busy being chatted up by an extremely eligible nice jewish guy - he was GORGEOUS - so I didn't want to disturb her. I do quite like parties sometimes, but only if I have control over my exit as after a while I simply don't want to talk to people any more. People think I'm a raving extrovert, but at least H understands that secretly I enjoy being quite alone, or with just him or another v close friend.

Finally, hoping that someone in the UK is reading this, WHAT WERE 51.1% OF THE BRITISH PUBLIC THINKING, EVICTING KEMAL OVER ORLAITH? I just stared at the television in horror. He was funny, he was smart, he was great television. She just whined and touched her breasts a lot. I don't get it. Are 51.1% of the voting public men who just wanted to ogle her? Well, tough titty for you, fishface (as my brother used to say), since she walked out the next morning. Honestly. Have you people no sense?

Normal fertility-related service will be resumed as soon as possible. Until then I must go and work. ugh.

Pregnancy

No, not mine sillies. I'm on CD5. I'm just seeing pregnancies, all around me. On the telly, in the street. I know this happens to all of us, it's just that today it is striking me particularly strongly.

Perhaps because the woman manager I was working with on Thursday is pregnant. I looked at her on Monday, having not seen her for a few weeks, and thought: she's pregnant. No, I thought, she's just put on a little weight. That made me feel better. But when I saw her again on Wednesday evening, it was clear. She's pregnant. The other guys on the team were talking with her about it. Now she's a perfectly nice woman and I'd like to be happy for her. I'm not unhappy for her, I'm just mind-blowingly, excrutiatingly, stomach-achingly, green-eyed-monsterly, disappointingly jealous of her. She is, of course, at least 5 years younger than me, very skinny, so the bump is sticking out nicely even though she's only 14 weeks. I want to be her. Her baby is due on 24 December, poor little thing.

In other news, still no side effects although I do have an off-again, on-again headache - could that be related? Or is it just normal dehydration headache after a tough workout? And my sister-in-law, the lovely fertile one, just sent me some flowers to say she's thinking of us as we start this treatment. That was nice of her. They're incredibly ugly flowers - nasty chrysanthemums and lilies which I loathe, but it was still nice of her.

It's been a pretty productive day, since in addition to the tough workout, I've also had my hair done, same balls-achingly expensive place I went to last time. This time the stylist put a few extra layers into my hair, then dried it all cute and flippy, looks quite funky. This is in aid of a party we're supposed to be going to tonight, although I really don't feel like getting dressed up to go. I'm thinking of using sickness from the drugs as an excuse, since the friend concerned knows about what we're up to. Hmm. Guilt over not going vs lovely evening on the sofa with H?

We just got back from the design shop, where we agreed to spend a heinous amount of money on a sofa, three chairs, some curtains, some bookshelves, and some joinery work to build a study for H and some better storage in our bedroom. It's going to be lovely, but some of it won't be done before end October. Oh well. Better late than never.

Blimey. Just took a break there to go hold H's waist while he pushed some leaves out of the gutter. We had torrential rain and the backed up gutter was causing a leak into our dining room. Crisis averted with some wet teatowels and a large broom. H is wet but is feeling all manly and proud of himself for mending something in the house, which is not usually his strong point. Bless.

How many cliches do you think I can put into one post? 

Blogging

I'm blogging more than I ever have before. Why is that? Well, thank you for asking, I've been thinking about that.

First, I'm very excited about this cycle. I know, I'm the juvenile infertile with the overdeveloped sense of optimism. Wait til the end of the cycle and you have to pick me up off the floor. Anyway, in the meantime I am excited and intrigued. So I want to write about it - to express some of this positive energy.

Second,I really enjoy the conversation we get going on each blog and between blogs. I don't get to talk about this stuff in real life, so this is where I get to discuss my obsession. And, I know this has been written a thousand times on infertility blogs, but you guys understand. You've been through it, or you are at least sympathetic to what I'm going through. It's incredibly rewarding to have this sort-of-dialog with you. I think I've made a brilliant deduction, too. You all seem to post comments around the same time, which is late morning US time. So do you all read blogs in your coffee breaks or lunch breaks?

Third, I'm bored with work and waiting for my holiday. Although my job is very stressful at times, it's up and down and this last week has been quite manageable. And, as you guys have no doubt noticed, I don't spend hours crafting these entries, I just write them. So even if it's just 30 minutes before I go to bed, or sitting in a car between meetings, I can speed type an entry knowing that within a few hours I will get some support from one of you.

Fourth, once I saw I was on a roll, I decided to keep going. A competitive kind of thing with myself. Let's just see how many days I can post in succession, I thought. So far so good. Except that you guys have a boring entry to contend with. Ah well, at least I got to tell you how much I appreciate you all.

A brief bit of content: Day 3 of clomid. Nothing yet. Thanks for letting me know not to expect anything yet. Fell asleep on the sofa at 2030 but then it's Friday and I'm always knackered on Fridays. We're working our way through season 3 of West Wing and it wasn't a very fascinating episode - the one where Josh and Amy don't go to Tahiti.

Ok I'm boring myself now. More tomorrow no doubt, unless I fall off the wagon.

Further things men say

H was looking pensive as we sat in the waiting room yesterday. Eventually, having flipped through the only edition of Country Life in the waiting room at least three times, he turned to me and said:

H: So is my sperm really ok then?

T: Yes, of course, why do you ask?

H: It's just that, it seems so easy. I just had the one test, and they told me it was fine, while you...

T: Yup, not fair, is it?

H: No... and my test involved having a wank, too.

T: Perhaps I should suggest they give you some shots, just to be on the safe side...

In other news, just popped the second clomid tab. No effects that I can spot, yet. Temperature still hasn't returned to usual baseline level but then I am waking up early and tossing and turning so that's probably it. Painters want to paint our kitchen lemon yellow. Not ideal with the dark blue floor we've got (and that we can't afford to change). H is colour blind but told them he thought it was ok. Luckily they only did a test patch and I've nipped it in the bud now.

I got the sense from comments on the last post that (some of) you were losing patience a bit. I'm sorry for that. I was a bit tense yesterday but am feeling ok now. I know that whatever happens I'm going to research the hell out of it. I didn't get that PhD for nothing, now! But anyway, thank you for the thoughts. I'm looking forward to seeing what the next week brings. I am convinced this cycle will work. Hhahahahahahahahahahahahah!

Systems are go...

Results are in:

• FSH: 6.5
• LH: 4.5
• E2: 89

I'm very happy with the FSH as it is down from last time (I think it was 7.8 or so when it was measuerd in November. Certainly it was below 10). I appreciate that this is within the normal variation range, but still, at least it is varying down rather than up. However, Dr Google has made me extremely nervous on the E2 level. I didn't know when the doctor called what a good number was (stupid supid) but now I know that it should have been below 75 and preferably below 50. I did find one google result that had two different units for measuring E2, under one of which I would have been ok, but I checked with our clinic and they are using the standard pg/mL measurement, so that does not constitute a get out of jail free card.

Although it was v hard to get back through to them, I did just manage to speak to the doctor who called me earlier (I was in a business lunch and had to leave the table to do the call - my results are written on the back of a Waitrose receipt from Saturday!), who was incredibly nice about me calling back, and explained that different kits have different standards, and according to their kit, under 100 is fine. She said: "Thalia, trust me if your level had been a problem I would have been the first person to tell you to wait a cycle, or to wait til tomorrow for it to drop further before starting the clomid."

I also had the wherewithal to ask about antral follicles. I had 3 on one side, 4 on the other. That seems low according to Dr Google, but again, my friendly doc assured me that that was good, nothing to worry about. This scan was performed by the wand monkey from hell. He jammed that thing around as if he was waving his umbrella at a friend in the park to emphasise particular points of conversation. He pulled it all the way to one side, then straight over to the other. At one point I asked him weakly if he'd at least warn me when he did that, but he then just did it again with no warning. Now I fully appreciate the horror. Last time seems tame in comparison.

I am chosing to be comforted by Dr Accomodating (don't know her name so am obliged to make this one up!). First clomid tab gets popped tonight, injections of 50units start Monday, next scan is next Weds, day 8.

Poor H. He came with me, and was generally lovely throughout. When I called to give him the test results, he said: "I've been hoping that they were going to tell us that you were really pregnant, and that we didn't have to do this." I had no idea he was thinking that. It made me cry. I asked him why he'd been holding on to that hope, he said: "I don't know, women's bodies seem so complicated, it's more of an art than a science so anything seems possible." We forget sometimes, don't we, how stressful it is for them, too.

Really CD1 this time

Bring on the drugs then.

This morning did give me a beautiful infertile memory, though. One I will treasure. I went back to sleep after the alarm went off and had a lovely dream that I'd got up, peed on the stick, and got lovely strong clear double lines, and everyone was so happy for me.

I woke up again at 650. Took my temperature - it was nice and high. Got up, no blood. Peed on stick. Then started to bleed before the stick had time to react. Stared at stick anyway. Stared at stick some more. Noticed second line but way up the test, away from the testing area. Decided to ignore it. Climbed back into bed with H and demanded comfort. Climbed out of bed and persuaded myself to do my "yoga for fertility" practice. Stared at stick a bit longer. Went to do yoga.

Medicines have now arrived, although painters haven't. Need to call clinic to set up day 2 scan tomorrow. Yaay.

Thanks for all your kind thoughts yesterday. But I guess I need the drugs. Please hope for me that that's all it will take for us. 

12 dpo? No, CD1. No, 12 dpo. No, CD1. Aaargh!

Who knows. Temp this morning was inconclusive. It was 5am when I got up so I didn't have the emotional strength to pee on a stick. Had a good meeting, during which I was convinced I must be pregnant as I suddenly felt very nauseous, realised I was hungry, ate half a banana, and felt much better. Later during the same meeting I was convinced my period had arrived. After the meeting found some evidence of spotting, gave up for this cycle and called clinic and drug delivery ppl to let them know this was CD1.

Now, 4 hours later, several hundred miles travelled, and still no period. A little more spotting but that's it. No cramping. No more nausea (other than the usual, travel-induced kind). According to my clinic this means it's not CD1 as my period has to arrive before noon for it to be CD1. Drugs ordered, though, just in case. The painters at home have agreed to accept delivery of them since I don't have access to a private fridge at work, I couldn't get through to the clinic to get them to authorise them to be delivered there, and the delivery company couldn't guarantee a delivery time. Anyone got any comedy drug delivery stories to share?

So I guess it's 12dpo until things are confirmed, which will presumably happen when the period arrives full blast tomorrow morning. If temp is still above the cover line tomorrow, and I'm not bleeding, I will POAS. However, I have no hope. This looks too much like pre-period spotting to be anything but.

11dpo

Well, temp is up this morning. So at least one day's reprieve. And no, I refuse to pee on a stick until Monday at the earliest. Inspring I'm not on hormones yet, so for this cycle at least the temps should give some kind of indication. The extra day makes me feel better about cycle length and luteal phase length, but could get us into some difficulties re our holiday, which is now booked for 2 weeks on Thursday. Should be ok so long as the period arrives by tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest.

I've had a bit of cramping today but it's gone away. I've been alternately convinced that my period is nigh, and having huge surges of Hope that it's not coming this cycle. I'm in a Hope moment right now. Let's see what the temp says tomorrow morning - although I've got to get up at sparrow's fart to get to a meeting out of town, so that will distort the results somewhat. I have no symptoms so no particular reason to hope. But I am, oh I am.

10dpo

Temp went down this morning, although not below the cover line, so it's quite likely that it will all be over for this cycle tomorrow. And I will be sad again, although I think not devastated due to the continuing lack of Hope this cycle (and thanks for all the comments, I hadn't seen her character in quite that light, I do now understand her gender!).

I have no symptoms. Other than in my dreams. On Thursday night I dreamt that I had a metallic taste in my mouth, and I was so pleased because that meant that I was finally pregnant! It was completely vivid and felt so real - I could really taste how my mouth felt. Of course, in real life (IRL we used to say on IRC), that symptom would not have been enough to persuade me, but in my dream, I was convinced. Imagine how I felt when I woke up!

Over the last few months I've mostly skipped the hard core workouts in the luteal phase just in case they had an effect. Today I went ahead and worked out with my trainer anyway - no point getting even less fit when I'm probably not pregnant anyway, and it hasn't helped in earlier cycles. I'm glad to have worked out, although I found out from her that she just got pregnant accidentally and miscarried at week 8, which was traumatic but also a bit of a relief for her so it was a bit wierd having that conversation.

While I was staying with friends last weekend I spoke with my friend K about her two miscarriages. One was a few months before she and her husband got married. She desparately did not want to be pregnant at that point, but would never have countenanced an abortion. She wonders about that pregnancy. First, that it would have been a boy (she has three girls). Second, that perhaps the absolute horror she felt at being pregnant led to the miscarriage. Of course I fought back against that one, but she has sort of convinced herself that that was her son, and because she didn't want him, he was taken from her. The second miscarriage was between her second and third daughters and she said "I regularly give thanks to a benevolent deity that I had that miscarriage as there is no way I could have coped with another child just 15 months younger than E." It's interesting, the stories we tell ourselves, isn't it?

Does anyone know why Grrl turned off comments and took down all older posts a month or so ago? I know she got a lot of negative comments but I used to really enjoy (a) the sense of community in her commenters, and (b) the education I got from reading her archives. And right now, of course, I'd love to send her some good wishes on the imminent arrival of gefilte. I hope all is going well. And of course everyone should go and share in Suz's good news.

Sweet fertile women

I know we (I) am mostly pretty mean about the fertile women who offer us their thoughts on how to get pregnant, but I had lunch today with the women I am working with this week (not the fuckwits of the last post, chief fuckwit was a man), and the two women there who are pregnant couldn't have been sweeter. One of them in particular told me how it took her and her husband 7 months to get pregnant, then she took a week off around her fertile time, and - bob's your uncle. I know it sounds like asshattery but she wasn't really offering advice, she was empathising and wanting to be nice to me. It was sweet.

We had a good women's bonding session on other issues, I was glad I made the time to do it. This isn't an easy job to do as a woman, so I like to connect with my women colleagues as much as possible.

6dpo and for some reason I have no Hope for this cycle. Wierd. I'm not ruling out a return visit from her over the next week, just she seems to have buggered off today. No symptoms to speak of.

P.S. Why did we decide Hope was a girl? Is it because she's related to Aunt Flo (no, don't worry I'm not about to sprinkle babydust, it's just that they seem to arise from the same oral, no, electronic, tradition.

5dpo

No, I'm not expecting anything but I want to record stuff, as I did last month, so that I have a comparator: Some vague uterine cramping, quite a lot of CM at one point today.

Am away all of this week and am missing H and having to spend time with some fuckwits who think they know more than I do about how to run this...event shall we say...that I'm on this week. But they don't and they're mean and I bet even their mothers don't really like them.

Ok vent over. They do suck, really, but since I can't write any details without giving away too much about work and being potentially unprofessional, I'll stop there.

I'm very tempted after all your words to say to the clinic that I'll skip the clomid thanks very much, but I've gone ahead and ordered the meds anyway just to be on the safe side. I've got about another week to ponder the decision, so we'll see what they say and where I end up.

Sorry for boring, bitty post, it's all I'm able to do this evening.

Scrambling across the last ditch before insanity...

I'm very proud of H and I. For the last week, we have managed to deposit sperm somewhere in the region of my cervix three times - every other night this week. It looks as if I ovulated yesterday or the day before, so we did all we could. It was stressful at times but we've found an approach that works for H. If he loses it, we stop, I lie silently while he relaxes and gets himself ready to go again. Then we try again. Last night it took us I think 7 tries before he could finish, but finish he did, and then I had a lovely orgasm and all was well. Monday night was better, probably because there was less pressure.  At some point I hope we will be able to get him over this hump, but this is such an improvement on last autumn that I am working to welcome it with open arms.

Of course, I'm 38, this is the second month post-lap and hysteroscopy, so the chances of it succeeding are probably less than 10%. But 10% is still a chance, right? And heaven knows I will do all I can to avoid the drugs.

Speaking of the drugs, I'm a bit nervous about the clomid. What about this "it's contra-indicated in women over 35" thing? Will it mess me up for six months like Emily? Or will it be fine (if ineffective) like it was for Mellie and many others who answered my last entry (thank you! - should I say thank you every time? Because I feel very thankful, but worry it gets repetitive. What the hell. Thank you. You guys rock)?

Anyway, I've got Hope for the approximately 10 days until she buggers off again. Wish me luck.

The poking yourself in the leg thing? Not so much...

Monday was clinic appointment day. Having waited six weeks for an appointment, you'll forgive me if I was expecting it to be a big thing. Instead I showed up (v slightly late due to broken down taxi. Bastard), we were immediately ushered in to see the Nurse, who told us off for not having done all the forms (to be honest, it had been so long since they'd given them to us, I'd forgotten that we had to do them!), then spent most of the time telling me stuff I already knew, and the rest of the time showing me how to use a Puregon pen. From the googling I think this is the same thing as Follistim, that drug of which you all speak so fondly. Is that right (Mare, you probably know this)?

One question I asked, to which she did not have an answer, was why I have to take the insanity-inducing clomid, followed by the fun drug Puregon, for an IUI cycle when I don't seem to have any trouble ovulating. Her answer was: "the doctor must think that you could do with some help". How does the doctor know? He hasn't even observed a cycle yet, let alone given me any drugs.

Did anyone else take drugs for an IUI? I've done some googling and a couple of studies say it increases success rates but that it's not indicated if there's no trouble with ovulation, which there (according to temperature, OPKs and progesterone levels) isn't. Colour me slightly irritated to not get a good answer to this question. I'm not so much with the stabbing or the insanity if it isn't essential.  Meanwhile H is really thrilled about the idea of me having extra insanity-inducing medication. That's his idea of a good time...

She proceded to read us the riot act about not travelling at all during treatment, about the likelihood I'll have to drop everything to come to the clinic on a regular basis...have these guys absolutely no clue about the kind of jobs we do? At least they open at 7am so it will be possible to work during the week before the IUI.

Anyway I went away with my nifty pen, in its own handy maroon case with a sharps bin and all. Now I feel like a proper infertile. £700 lighter, not including the drugs. They gave me a company to order from, not sure if it's worth going offshore. Any UK ppl tried offshore drugs cos? Does it make a big difference?

So many questions for you all, I'm so glad you exist!

London, 3 days later

It feels the same. It's sunny today, and we took a two hour walk to a fair that was happening in a local park. It was full of families having fun. We tried a small cafe's home made icecream, which was delicious. We wandered by the river. And every newsagent we passed had signs outside: "Pictures of the missing".

I've now read through these profiles in the paper three times - Friday evening, Saturday morning and this morning. They are very poignant. I remember reading the New York Times obituaries of the 9/11 dead, and being left with a sense of lives not lived, and how ordinary they were, until something extraordinary happened. And I remember the story of the guy from Cantor Fitzgerald who walked his son to nursery on 9/11 and so didn't get to work until 09:15, and so survived. Just like the guy who got off the number 30 bus on the morning of 7 July, because it was going so slowly, at 09:45. He told a guy trying to get on: "There's a free seat upstairs, mate." Two minutes later the top of the bus blew off.

London is determined to carry on. Although the city was quiet on Friday the weekend has been normal. I went on the Tube yesterday morning and it was the same as every Saturday morning. Except that when I got off at Holborn there was no entry to the Picadilly Line. And tomorrow when I take the Picadilly line to work I'll have to get off two stops early and walk. Who knows when they will be able to get the line working again. We'll cope.

I'm struck again by the debate on my post about hierarchies of loss. Is this bombing less awful than 9/11? Than Lockerbie? Because "only 70" people have died. Isn't that an extraordinary indictment of how we feel about world events. The loss that is felt by those 70 people's loved ones will be the same, whether it was 70 or 700. The difference from 9/11 that I can see, is that given the scale of the loss, I imagine that most people in New York were affected in some degree - perhaps second or third hand - but everyone had their lives touched by loss. For me and everyone I know, we don't know anyone who was lost last Thursday. I cry at the pictures in the paper, but it's a distant grieving, not a heartfelt loss. And unlike New York, Londoners are used to bombs. As a teenager I got used to planning longer than I needed for tube journeys to make up for disruptive bomb threats. But mostly when the IRA made a bomb threat, they made it in time to evacuate people. These people are in a different mindset.

Thanks to all of you for the thoughts you have posted on your blogs.

Cold turkey

I knew what I wanted to hear, I think. Thanks for your comments. I stopped the Vitex yesterday and today didn't take the Dong Quai either. It's not exactly cold turkey as I'm sticking with the B6 which seemed to have a good effect early on, plus the essential omegas, superphyte (lots of antioxidant plant extracts) and a prenatal multi. What a junkie. And I used to poke fun at people who took supplements! Never again.

Keep your fingers crossed for a 'normal' cycle. Am off to the US again tomorrow, back Friday. Then it's nookie time.

Freaking out

So I made the mistake of googling: "shortening menstrual cycles" this evening. Don't do it. It is one of the clearest signs of impending menopause. I'm now convinced that I'm at the end of my fertility and might as well give up. Now, just three months ago my FSH was fine, so I really shouldn't be worrying about this, but you know how these things are.

To add some facts. My cycles for the last nine months (ironic, huh?) have been, in days:

26
23
25
28
26
23
24
24
23

I did do this as a graph but I can't figure out how to post it. The last four months are clearly shorter than the previous five, although not getting worse. In the early months I was ovulating between day 13 and day 15. The last four, I've ovulated on day 12, occasionally day 13.

I think I may be over medicating myself. I started taking B6 about 11 months ago as I had about a 10 day luteal phase. By gradually increasing the dose I got the luteal phase up to 11 or 12 days regularly, which I felt happy about. Then I started taking Dong Quai as I was worried about my periods being a bit lighter than they had been before. I didn't see a big effect. Then I started taking Vitex, as I heard it was just generally a good thing. Then about 4 cycles ago I added in evening primrose oil (EPO) from menstruation to ovulation, to increase egg white cervical mucous. Not sure if it's had a big effect - I don't take much (500mg) and green tea seems to help the most on that. Last cycle I stopped the dong quai when I ovulated as I'd read it should be stopped then. I also changed brands of the B6. Then I had, for the first time in over 10 months, a 10 day luteal phase.

I'm guessing that the Vitex is doing something bad to me instead of something good, and that's the cause of the shorter cycles for the last four, and that I should stop taking  it. I'm not sure about the dong quai and whether that had any link to last month's brutally short LP. Of course I should go and see a practitioner but that would imply a level of organisation and time that I simply don't seem to have - or to make for myself.

I'm not really asking for advice (well, actually I am, but I'm not expecting you guys to diagnose me over the internet). Would you stop taking the chinese herbs?

Hierarchies of loss

Do you all feel different levels of sorrow when you see different kinds of sad news on someone's blog? Do you, for example, feel less sad at my 11dpo post than you do when you see someone who has been through an IUI get a negative beta? And less sorrow for them than for someone who has been through a full IVF cycle and got their negative beta?

And extending into more controversial territory, do you feel less sorrow for someone whose pregnancy ends at 5 weeks than you do for someone whose pregnancy ends at 15 weeks? At 25 weeks? At 35 weeks with a stillborn baby or a baby who dies?

I'm not trying to be morbid with that last one, it's just that I've been sitting on the sofa reading this morning and wondering about how I feel. My answer to the first of the above two paragraphs is "yes". Sort of. I do feel more sadness for Julianna's last IVF cycle than I do for my own bad news this month. I feel terrible for Danae's horrific week, more so than I did to hear about Reprogirl's failed IUI. That doesn't mean that I sat there when I read Reprogirl's entry and thought, "get over it, sister." I felt bad for her. I wished it had worked. But somehow it doesn't seem so awful as when someone has been going through this for so long and it still doesn't work, like Julianna, or when someone gets that fantastic news and then something goes wrong.

The two first paragraphs above aren't really asking the same question, though, are they? The first asks about whether we feel more sympathy when someone has gone through more pain to get there. MsPrufrock was writing about this yesterday. The second paragraph is asking about if it is worse when pain comes after you've already started to feel joy, after you've already started to live a different life. I can only imagine that although many in this community write blogs saying: I won't believe it til the 12th week, I won't be excited until I know the baby is viable, there must be some part of you, surely, which is happy. Which in unguarded moments starts to think about and take joy in the potential baby. I read last week on someone's blog, I can't remember who's, sorry, that they had decided to let happiness reign early in their pregnancy even though something might go wrong. It's going to be awful if it does go wrong, they wrote, so we might as well be happy in the interim. That sounds a lot like the advice you guys gave me a few entries ago about hoping during the 2ww. Enjoy the hope, even if you have to mourn afterwards.

Given that, I do feel terribly sorry for someone who is losing their baby in the 5th week of pregnancy. You are already losing that potential child you had started to dream about, even if you hadn't really let yourself start dreaming. The news that someone has a stillborn baby does seem worse - you had no reason to think anything had gone wrong. But it is the same grief, surely. The grief of a lost child. Is grief worse when your child dies at the age of six than if he'd died at two? So why is it so much worse if he dies at two than if he dies before he left your body. Your image of him was still there, you had already started to think about him as your son...Indeed, I just found an article which shows that parents who have a premature baby also experience grief - grief for the loss of the full term pregnancy they expected, of the healthy baby that they didn't have to worry about...Grief seems to be the loss of an imagined future, more than it is about the loss itself.

I'm torn. Perhaps the point is that there is no hierarchy of grief. That what you feel when responding to someone else's loss depends on your own sense of loss, on eliciting that empathy in you that relates to the losses you have suffered, whether or not they were related to infertility. That no one can judge any one else's level of grief. That we should grieve and sympathise with each other because that is what makes this community worthwhile. I think that's what we do. That's what I will try to do.

Indulgence

Thank you all for your comments on the last post. I was a bit of a quivering mess. I decided to take advantage of being in a soul-less hotel room in NYC by going out and buying a tub of chocolate peanut butter ice cream (not available in the UK where the general population is sadly undereducated about the delights of the chocolate and peanut butter combination). I ate about a 1/3 of it and then decided to retain at least some self-respect and dumped the rest by putting it in the basin and running the hot tap (to remove any "well, I'm very fond of melted ice cream" temptation).

I'm already feeling better. Maybe it's the impending IUI - although that's still 5 weeks away. Maybe because it's the only way to keep putting one foot in front of another. Maybe because I just had to pull myself together to do my job. Whatever it is, I would be struggling a great deal harder without all of you. Thank you.