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Sunday, 16 July 2006

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katty

Hello and welcome back.
1. I don't have much to say on this, largely as I do not have a partner. However, from my group of fertilely-challenged friends (we used to meet once a week, now we meet once a month) I have learned that problems with sex in couples tring to conceive is very common (when sex is mentioned, for example, there is much snorthing and ironic laughter). I hope you are able to work it out.
2. I only had an orgasm in my sleep once. Unfortunately it happened while I was sharing a bedroom with my ex-Catholic aunt and I am sure I woke her up. I found this very embarrasing, and to date (it happened years ago) I'm sure it still colours her opinion of me. I know she loves me but I think she thinks I'm somewhat wierd.

Jenn

Yes, yes, yes about the posting during/after pregnancy. I wrote a post about that months ago about how much I hate it when people would stop posting once they got pregnant how even more left out it made me feel.

And sleepgasms? They rock :)

art-sweet

I think infertility fucks with everyone's sex lives. Or have you always had mismatched libidos?

Good couples' therapy is a Very. Good. Thing.

Pamplemousse

Of course, I could trot out the old chestnut that orgasms in your sleep is a PG symptom but then you would have to shoot me, hmm?

On your PG posters rant, I agree. If I am hating the world (which includes all PG people and is pretty much still every day), I don't read their blogs so they could be posting anything about pregnancy anyway.

The guilt thing...phooey. Unless you got PG the old-fashioned way, there is nothing to feel guilty about. I did not feel guilty for the whole entire week that I knew I was PG and everything was supposedly normal. Ditto when it happens again. The money it is costing entitles me to that haha! And you and everyone else.

beagle

I'm afraid I don't have any good advice or even assvice. You could do like me and take AD's then you'll care a little bit less yourself. (Ironically depressing side effect, I know).

Just know you're not alone. The trouble with men (IMHO) is that they feel the pain of all this too but can't put it into words or blogs so they just get stuck.

Hope it gets better. You have my e-empathy.

PS I know it's not about the bedrest, but I need something I can (pretend to) control or affect.

Kay/Hanazono

So glad to hear from you again! Sorry to hear about the crossed wires with H this morning. I think you're right that you can't cure what is going on with him -- he has to find his own way. I know it can be tough to just sit back and wait, though.

And yes, those pg milestones do stay with you, don't they? I'm so sorry that things didn't turn out differently for you guys. Hang in there.

InDueTime

Hugs Thalia..
On the sex thing...M and I have been battling it for atleast 8+ months. He never wants to have sex. Ever. He hates when I want it, even if it is for babymaking. He's in his early twenties so I keep telling him hes not right lol.. He has finally opened up over the last twoish so weeks but I cant find a reason..we had a good long indepth talk full of tears and hugs while we were on vacation.. maybe that did it. Who knows. I hope your DH gets his stuff together soon..I know it sucks. Hang in there honey.

Krista

I agree whole heartedly with the pregnancy posting rant. I mean really, I read these peoples lives everyday. I cheer for them, I pray for them, I cry for them. And then they get pregnant and they leave me out. And I know that they feel guilty but don't, if I am having a bad day I won't read, or I probably will read but not comment. But... and it's a big BUT. When you stop posting it is like rubbing your pregnancy in the face of the rest of us. Like saying, now that I am pregnant I am another of the people who are not like you. Hmmm... didn't know I felt so strongly. Wonder if I should be worried about that...?

susan

I found the opposite of Beagle, anti depressents made me very, um, amorous. I loved it.

I was thinking the same thing about when the prenant ones stop posting. But I can't blame them.........it's got to be a suspended state of hope, disbelief, fear...and if all goes well, an end to the IF struggle for a while. I hate to say it but it's a club that all of us long to quit...right? Eventhough we leave so much fantastic support behind.

Cricket

My ex, well, I refer to him as asexual - not to his face. But then he blamed me for it, his strange hang ups. It was a power thing for him, as he wasn't a bad lover when he would give it up.

I love sleep orgasms. I have a couple a year. Wish I had more, especially now that I'm single again.

Mercer

Delurking to say I totally am with you on the pregnancy posters. It's the same thing I've gotten in real life so many times - someone tells me they're TTC, we commiserate, I share lots of hard-earned info and war stories, etc., and then suddenly I don't hear from them for, oh, 10 weeks. Of course, they're pregnant and didn't want to tell me until the official announcement. As if I don't feel excluded from the club enough already! With bloggers, you're rooting for them, you're invested in them, and you want to live it vicariously, goddamn it! Phew. Thanks for letting me rant. I very much appreciate the bloggers who do continue to post after the big +++.

As for dreamgasms, I've had more of them since I started down the IF road. Hormones? Pent-up urges for non-stressful sex? Who knows, but it's a nice side effect.

Spanglish

It hurts my feelings, too when an IF sister stops posting once she becomes pregnant. I can't relate to survivor's guilt because I did not feel guilty for either of my two pregnancies. Then again, I was not pregnant for long so maybe, with time, I would've understood.

I understand how you feel about the passing of time and missing what should be. I mourn over three-year-olds because I should have a toddler running around my house. I mourn over the fat yearlings because there is supposed to be one of those in my arms. I hope this sadness becomes easier with time.

And of course the heat exacerbates EVERYTHING.

I've never had an orgasm in my sleep -- lucky girl. IF treatment screwed up our sex life, too. We've been on a break for months and months, but the trauma has proven to be too much. It's too difficult to be seductive right now. I so understand.

Be gentle with yourself.

fisher queen

I'm sorry that you and your husband are out of synch. I was trying to think of what I would like when not in the mood (which used to be very often)- maybe some help with chores, talking, etc.- all that stuff that supposedly only women care about? Maybe that would help him?

Nikole

Glad you had a great trip.

I too have been recently thinking that I would be 15 weeks pregnant this week. It is hard, and I try not to dwell on it, as it is easy for me to fall into a pit of despair.

As for the not posting as much during pregnancy, this definitely applies to me during my most recent pregnancy (I wasn't blogging during any of my first three). It is really interesting to read this post, and to read the comments of the lovely ladies who have posted in response. For me, I went into "survival mode" when I found out I was pregnant. What this means is that, after three previous miscarriages, most of the time I was in denial that I was really pregnant. I was treading water, so to speak. I think I would have started posting more, once I got to a place where I felt more confident, but I never got to that point. I was also afraid that writing about it would place me under a curse of bad luck (yes, I know this makes no sense). Really, with four failed pregnancies, I don't feel that I'm someone that anyone would want to vicariously live through. I definitely plan to post more regularly when I find myself pregnant again, as hard as it may be. I say that, but really, I know that I will do whatever I have to to mentally survive those first weeks, even if it means taking a break from the blogosphere. I appreciate the honesty that you showed in posting your thoughts, and that of the other people leaving comments.

Oh, and my sex life has pretty much gone to shit too.

Meg

I love it when women admit their sex life has gone to shit... it's one of those things that everyone pretends doesn't happen. Which bugs the shit out of me. So. We don't have sex that much, and generally we're not THAT bothered by it. What's the big deal?

I hear you on pregnant bloggers. Was thinking about that the other day. I wonder if they just feel too tired and unwell to post. I mean, it's not like I KNOW what it feels like to be pregnant or anything.

Liana

My husband and I have major sexual dysfunction issues. At first I thought I could deal, but it has gotten really old. I would strongly recommend sex therapy together. It was there that we discovered husband's masturbation addiction (all guys do it, right? How do you know when it qualifies as addiction?) that has caused us our intimacy problems.

Isn't it an odd feeling to be a woman whose partner doesn't want to have sex? It is hard to talk about it with friends since they usually have the opposite problem. And then there is the "it must be me" conclusion. Ah, it just sucks.

Not much more to add. Just know that I understand.

Donna

Yup, been there too. Sex is 90% a brain thing, so if there is emotional stuff going on in the relationship (and I think its safe to say there has been!), I've found its the first thing to go. I hope it gets better, we go in waves of ebbing and flowing and it always turns around. Don't throw tomatoes at me, but I get that some pregnant ladies and especially first Mommies just don't have the energy and/or time to blog. I was in therapy for 4 solid years and the week I left my ex I stopped, cold turkey, I was done and I needed to go in a new direction. Just my two cents.

Emma B

On pregnant blogging, well, sometimes pregnancy just doesn't offer much to blog about, especially not compared to monthly treatment cycles. You've got your initial fears of miscarriage, and sometimes your morning sickness, but after that it's like, ho-hum, still pregnant. There are some milestones, like level II ultrasounds, but it's definitely not blogging-every-day material. I know I don't tend to blog nearly as much when things are going along smoothly -- it's easy to go two weeks between postings unless I have some sort of pregnancy crisis.

I think it's a lot like being in the downregulation portion of an IVF cycle, actually -- lots of IF bloggers are quiet during the Lupron phase, too.

heleen

When I was pregnant I didn't get morning sickness but what did make me feel sick was scrolling on webpages...
I should apologise for being one of those people that stopped blogging once the babies arrived, trying to catch up on my blog soon...
Any tips to get sleeporgasms?

Summer

I completely agree with your rant. Afterall, when you’ve followed someone’s story for so long, you don’t want them to completely cut you out of their life. And who blogs just for themselves, anyway? We’re all blogging to make our readers happy, right? So, make me happy, dammit!

On the other note: I also relate to the living with ED issue (because it’s not just hubby living with it, is it?). It’s frustrating that even just bringing the subject up seems to set things back even more.

Do you think you and H can try fooling around without fooling around? You know, find other ways to be sexually satisfying for each other? Mr. Worrier and I have been trying some things the last few times we were intimate (initiated on his part, so I didn’t have to bring it up). It hasn’t been completely satisfying, but it’s a start.

Womb in waiting

its a hard one the sex & fertility journey, a twisted fate of irony.....but if its any consolation, i imagine there are a majority of couples whos sex lives go thru quite a decline thru this process. Ours has & we try to give it energy but sometimes its just too hard.....but as long as were both very connected & still intimate & talking about it, i feel were ok...not sure if thats helpful...thinking of you x

PBfish

I'd like to chime in about not blogging after get pregnant. I found that I blogged much less frequently after my positive test. I can pin it down to 3 reasons.
1. Because I had high fsh and there was a question about the quality of my eggs, I was terrified that I would have a miscarriage. I didn't want to tempt fate by being too happy.
2. I couldn't think about anything else but the pregnancy, and was scared to talk about it, so I didn't write anything at all.
3. I have "pregnancy brain" and hate the quality of my writing.
Not sure what to say about the sex thing, except that I hope that it sorts itself out. And I'm sorry that you are dealing with this, I know how hard it can be to get the your sex-mojo back once infertility has screwed it up.
Oh. And I'm totally jealous about the sleepgasm.

Serenity

Welcome back!

I am sorry your wires crossed with H this morning- IF fucks with your sex life. :(

Hugs.

TBP

Oh, big sympathy re the sex thing.

Six years of bad sex in our case. Three years of TTC (and all those stoopid jokes 'hey! it's fun trying, though, isn't it?!'...erm, no), nine months (ish) of not feeling like it after a successful treatment then two years of toddlerhood rendering us too knackered to contemplate it.

Only now are we back on track...

(But woo for sleepy orgasms! Only had one once myself - just a couple of weeks ago. Would love to know how it happened...

:)

Demeter

Hey Thalia, I am still here and cheering for you. Quiet doesn't always mean absent. Also, if a pregnancy is uneventful, many don't find much to talk about, or at least not as interesting as the IF feats.
On the sex question....? I wish I could give you some words of wisdom, but the only thing I could say is "this shall pass too"

Em

I am glad you wrote that about people stopping blogging when they get pregnant because I really like still blogging and I was always thinking that people may not care about reading once someone gets pregnant. The support I have got from blogging is amazing so I couldn;t give it up.

I sometimes have orgasms in my sleep. I had quite a few when I was pregnant, probably because I wasn;t really having sex! I have had them other times as well.

Paige

I agree about pg infertiles who stop posting. 1. Do we stop suffering from infertility after pregnancy? Do cancer sufferers stop talking about it after they go into remission? I think that we are all a part of a special sisterhood (and brotherhood) of women whose life has dealt them infertility.
2. My blog sisters are my friends - ok, true, I'll have days when I need to skip the pg blog - but I'll always come back because I care!

Alli

I always want people to keep writing during their pregnancies and I look so forward to seeing the first picture and being able to ooh and ah over it. . .

annmarie

I can relate Thalia...since I began my infertility testing, cycles and surgeries, 32 people have been between my legs. Ridiculous. The last thing I want to do is go home and be sexual. I'm hoping this all passes...

Kris

Sex? What does this strange word mean?

Alexa

Oh, Thalia, I was nodding along with this post. The pregnancy thing bothers me too--it doesn't make me mad or anything, just...lonely.
And as for the sex issue, that has been a real issue for us for a while now. I think I have always been more interested in sex than he is, but I there have been a few periods when it has gotten really bad, when it would only happen if I bothered him about it. And who wants to do that? It is horrible for the self esteem. I really don't have any useful advice, but you certainly have my empathy.

Nico

It's about equally as hot over here too. It really is miserable!

I've never had a dreamgasm, but I have very occasionally had dreams that have totally turned me on. My approach has just been to roll over and 'attack' M, before he even realizes what's going on, rather than talking about it. (He's done the same to me on occasion). Might that work for you?

isabel

Touching him more and kissing him more (not in "I want you now" but in "you are always nice to touch" ways) will increase feelings of being sexually desirable. Hope it helps your DH feel more sexAY.

Also, compliments and listening help too. This worked for my DH and me after TTC 1 yr killed our sex drives.

StellaNova

My previous partner was sex-obsessed, so I found it was a kind of relief to find someone who wasn't. That soon wore off, however, and became almost painful once we started trying to conceive. I began to feel like I was abnormal for actualy wanting it, and my husband felt intimidated by the pressure. I a really strange way, IVF treatment freed us up a little. We consciously avoided it for so long that after my pregnancy ended, it was like a relief. No expectation, no pressure, no chance of success. We had spoken and cried together a great deal before hand as well. When it was just for fun, he was good. When it had a purpose, a chance to conceive, it all disappeared again - like we'd never been intimate and didn't know how. Maybe choose a time when there's no possible chance (and that he also knows that fact) - it might just diminish that 'performance anxiety'. But I'm no expert - I still have to instigate it every time.

T

I felt guilty for pregnant posting for a little while, but kept posting, but then it became - well - boring. And the lack of comments doesn't exactly make you feel wanted necessarily either, especially with all the bloggers out there saying that once you get pg you should stop posting - kwim?

Couples counseling is the best thing that ever happened to us, I hope you can get him to go. It took me quite a while to get mine to go.

Linda

Councelling has worked wonders for some of my married friends. You might have to try out a few different councelors, though, in order to find one that is a good fit for the two of you.

Dream orgasms are awesome. I've had them my entire life, although the frequency varies quite a bit. I think they appeared in my 20's and increased in frequency during my early and mid 30's.

During IVF #1, Dr. Moustache told us, "No sex or orgasms!" and whaddaya know...my body decided to defy him. I woke up in the throes of one and freaked that I'd killed the embryos. I don't think that thier presence is indicative of anyone's sex life being on the fritz...they might indicate you're highly receptive though. I just wish I knew what brought them on. We could market it and make a fortune.

Ornery

I'm determined to keep posting, but I do find it difficult to come up with interesting things to write about. When your main purpose for blogging is infertility, it's tricky to know which direction to take the blog when pregnancy occurs. Keep talking about your reproductive system only or start expanding into other areas of your life?

As for sex, I had an absolutely miserable sex life after my miscarriage. The first time we tried, I ended up sobbing in the middle of it (very sexy) and after that my husband was terrified to touch me for the longest time. Things are much better now, but it always comes and goes in waves. Oh, and I've had several dream orgasms in my life and...WOW.

soralis

I agree about the blogs... It's ashame to see some girls 'dissappear'. You are right we need hear the good stuff too so that we know there is hope!

Take care

Jenny

Good points about blogging during/after pg, you summed up some random thoughts that I was having. As for the sex life, I wish I had some suggestions. Ours has taken a serious downturn since we've started on this journey. The love and tenderness is still there, but the heat and passion are no where to be found.

Laffinmybuttoff

Pg not blogging. My real issue is not blogging once the baby is adopted or born. I keep thinking its not fair that I went through the whole process with them only to have them drop from sight.

Sleepgasms, have been lucky in that department. Its the awake ones I have to work so hard at. They tend to happen more if the awake becomes less. Ive always felt like I was silent and still when it happened. Now I wonder.
Its funny how different men react differently, and in different situations. I wonder what his reaction would be if IF wasnt an issue.

Louise

Glad you are back from Austria!

Sorry to hear abt H.

IF is so awful on the libido, and then you are dealing with ED on top of that.

I liked one of the suggestions above, along the lines of"try being intimate with no expectation of having intercourse." Pretend you're teenagers again, with mum and dad in the next room :-) It couldn't hurt :-)

KIMMER

Sex issues, I'm with your husband so don't know what to tell you. I really despise sex sometimes. Probably should seek counseling too, I'll add that to my to do list! I just wish I had some sort of Viagra for women some times or something to increase my sex drive?
Sleep orgasms, it’s only happened to me a couple of times; last one was 2 years ago with one of my IVF cycles. Really wish that I had more of those though... ENJOY!
Pregnant bloggers, I so can relate to what you just blogged, I always feel abandoned in the beginning, I want every detail of the pregnancy and it seems like people quite blogging about being pregnant when they strived so hard to get there. But, I totally can relate with the survivor's guilt thing also. Not that I'm a survivor, but I would be very scared to even blog about my own pregnancy because they are always doomed for failure. Whew… that is the most I’ve typed in weeks!

Sassy

Yay about Austria.
Hoping Monday is as gentle as possible.
I fully agree with your rant - it shits me too.
Sex - I'm not even having orgasms in my sleep so I'm going to stop here.

Rebecca

I'm glad you had a good week in Austria. It sounds like you have a very cool job, jetsetting to all those places!

Struggling with all this crap definitely puts a damper on sex. I hope H finds the motivation to go to a counselor or a couples therapist. I encouraged R to go after our last m/c, and he kept putting it off too. Finally I called him one day at work and said, "Here's the number. Call her now, and then call me back to tell me when you set it up for." (Ok, yes, so I can be a *bit* bossy at times...) But he did it, and afterward he was actually glad he went. He even made a second appointment to go see her after we get back from our IVF cycle.

Kath

Dear Thalia, I'm glad your trip was rewarding -- and I hope you get to rest a bit this week too!

I agree about wanting to know about how our pregnant sisters are doing, but I understand how awkward it can be for them, for real and imagined reasons...

I'm so sorry about your troubles with H. There is such a daunting combination of factors at play here that it must be virtually impossible to sort them out by yourselves, to listen to each other without interpreting or defensiveness. I hope you manage to overcome this together soon.

Jill

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles with your sex life. You're certainly not alone, though. I think that infertility and miscarriages wreak havoc on the sex lives of most couples who go through them.

After several years, the trying-to-conceive sex became torturous for both my husband and me, and it started to color the just-for-fun sex, too. While trying to conceive, I worried about setting myself up for yet another miscarriage (with good reason, as it turned out), and the fear didn't exactly work wonders for my libido. I don't think that all the hormonal upheavals were helpful, either. My husband also worried that we were setting ourselves up for another miscarriage, plus he felt a lot of pressure to perform in accordance with the tyranny of the fertility monitor. Basically, sex became associated with stress, and stress isn't exactly an aphrodisiac. Now that we are moving on to adoption, I am really hoping that we can get back on track in the bedroom. I also hope that things will improve for you and your husband.

I'm so sorry that you aren't in the second trimester right now as you and all of us hoped you would be. I understand the pain of losing an unborn baby and thinking wistfully of what might have been if there had been no miscarriage. It's very sad.

statia

I had a dreamgasm the other night I think. And now I'm all freaked out about bleeding. Then again. I'm questioning everything.

Dreamgasms are fun though.

SaraS-P

I agree on the pregnancy posting issue. Without the pregnancy and new baby blogs, some of us would drown in despair. We need to know it can happen!

And, I am relieved to know others experience strained sexual relations while TTC. I remember when we first started dating and all I had to do was snap and we were getting it on. The baby chase changes it to a duty instead of a pleasure. I want my pleasure back!

Ann

Guilt - yes, I do feel guilty and awkward. I feel tremendously lucky that I got handed the key to leave the IF roller coaster, with very little time spent and minimum medical assistance tried. I root for the IF bloggers but sometimes I am unsure of whether I should leave a comment. Am I a reminder of what's missing? When I was trying, I do remember feeling forgotten by pg friends, so I do like hearing the acknowledgement that someone heard my pain. But is it the same for everyone? Please let me know.

Blogging - honestly, there is very little to blog sometimes. I do feel ungrateful if I do complain but am also afraid of sounding twitty and silly if I get overly excited about my pregnancy.

Fertile Soul

Sleep orgasm is still better than none. The ivf roller coaster can knock the wind out of a sex life. Eventually, you'll get your wind back, even if your subconscious has to do it for you ;)

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