A two day life sentence

So, the details.

• On the right: two at 16, one at 12, one 11mm
• On the left :15, 13, two below 10
• E2 has climbed to 1623 (442 American), LH 0.4

So althought the follicles are still pretty measly, they are growing, and the E2 has climbed substantially - I assume this is a good thing, even though the follicles are small?

The doctor I spoke to (it was the South African from Friday) was incredibly brusque, tried to get me off the phone with "Come in on Wednesday, thanks, bye." and got quite stroppy when I asked for more information. I became terribly charming, which was a big leap given it was 16:45, they were supposed to call me by 14:30, I'd been trying to get through to them since 15:30, and they turn the phones off at 17:00. He relented a little and gave me the data above.

Instructions are to come in again on Wednesday for blood and scan, when there should be three larger than 17, which is their cut off point for trigger. Don't you think it's interesting that in August the cut off point for fertility was only 14mm, leading to our cancelled IUI? I'll have to ask why there is a different scale for IUI than IVF. I think it's probably the British clinics' absolute paranoia about multiples. Because if the cutoff point had been 17, we could have done the bloody IUI in the summer. Bastards. Not that it would have worked, of course, but at least we'd have had some treatment that might actually result in a pregnancy, rather than messing around which results in them treating us for no good reason.

I tried to ask him about what would happen on Wednesday and he wasn't playing. He said he could not say if they'd go ahead or not based on only having three at 17mm. Please send lots of blossoming thoughts to the 12, 13 and even those little ones to see if they can catch up. Having five would be a lot better than three.

I really hate this. I hate the uncertainty. I hate having work hanging over my head. I hate the fact that my body is screwing me over.

I've written another note to Dr Candour who is due back from holiday today. I hope he replies, I need succour right now.

Comments

[Jill]

I know that the uncertainty sucks, but I think that your follicles and E2 sound promising, Thalia. I'm hoping and praying that they keep growing and that this cycle turns out well for you.

[DD]

Jill is right, your follies and E2 do sound promising, and you should let that little nugget of info looking to more possibilities.

However, I find the clinic's inability to give you more info incredibly frustrating. We're talking about YOUR body here, people! Can you call early Tuesday and have your list of questions ready so you can be more prepared for Wednesday? Even if they don't know, giving you the options of "If this happens, we'll do this..." or "If this happens, we'll do that..." Even the physician's nurse should be able to answer some of your questions.

[heleen]

I hate that when doctors just say: it's going good, or this and that is not going to well. Just give me the freaking numbers please, I'll look it up myself! Come on Thalia, few more days. Hang in there girl....

[Caroline]

I hate when Dr's play - "I've got a secret" with you. I agree with DD - its your body you have a right to know. I also despise how they think that too much information will make patients worry - ummm excuse me I already worry enough - I at least want reasonable data to google and worry with.

Anyway - I am sending you and your follicles are the positive growth thoughts I can...hang in there!!!

[Lindy]

It sounds much more promising than your last report! I really do think you're going to be able to go through with this.

And I was told the same thing re: IUI vs. IVF and follicle size. Apparently anything around 14-15 mm at the time of trigger has a good chance of maturing in time for retrieval/IUI. So for deciding when to trigger for IVF, they look for the lead follicles (I was told they want between 2 and 5) to between 17 and 22 mm and then they expect many of those that are 14-15 to be ready for retrieval as well. I'll bet you're looking at at least six for retrieval, could be more by Wednesday!

I almost had an IUI cycle cancelled once with a single follicle at 17.5 mm, but a few more at 14-15.

[PJ]

I'm really hoping you at least get a chance this cycle. All my bits are crossed for you.

[Pamplemousse]

You are still in the game, T. Deep breaths now. Stop stressing about what to ask on Wednesday as it will all depend on what is happening follicle-wise. The doctors won't tell you any more as they do not have a cystal ball.

But after all that, your E2 rising well is a very good sign and I think in 2 days, you could see a big difference in follicles. Remember, you are not in control. It is your ovaries behind the wheel now.

[MsPrufrock]

It's funny that I'm commenting on this given that I am a complete IF dolt, but follicles have a mind of their own. As someone with 5 cycles of Clomid and 4 IUIs under their belt, I am quite familiar with my follicles...go me!

A lot can happen in 2 days in regard to follicle growth, listen to the others, they know of what they speak.

I'll be thinking of you and hoping those follicles get there follicular asses in gear.

[Teresa]

Oh Thalia your numbers all sound so promising to me! I hate your doctor, though. I hope Dr. Candour pulls through for you.

This cycle can't be cancelled. It just can't. The follies will grow. I've got all bits crossed for you.

[susie]

I'm crossing everything for those follicles to keep on getting bigger. Thinking of you.

[pixi]

My gosh, you've been put through the wringer. I hope you are taking some days to rest. Sending big wishes from New England to old England that things will come through.

[Summer]

I don't have any experience with this, so I'll just say that I hope your Dr./clinic is just being conservative and you retrieve a lot more follicles than they are letting on.

Good Luck!

[millie]

See? I told you you'd get good news with your e2. I think you'll see some good growth between now and Wednesday. The little ones will catch up some and you'll be good to go for retrieval. I'm still crossing everything I can for you but hope you can exhale just a tiny bit.

[persephone]

Thalia, I definitely remember reading that there are commonly two different "mature" follicle sizes for IUI and IVF.

I might be totally making this explanation up, but maybe with IUI they need to be a bit more conservative about how early a follicle might contain a fertilizable egg than with IVF? Because with IVF, even if let's say all five of the ones you had in Augaust had fertilized, they could still limit the number they put back...

Anyway, I'm glad they're trying as hard as they can to make this cycle work, and I'm sorry it's been so stressful. Hoping for good things.

[fisher queen]

To me, it really sounds like there's a good chance they'll get there. Hoping for you!

[Manuela]

Thinking of you and wishing you lots and lots of fab follicles!

[OvaGirl]

Also thinking of you Thalia and also hoping for loads of follicles. I understand all the stress and uncertainty must be doing your head in. I am imagining your follicles like coloured balloons and they are blowing up into beautiful rounded floating globes of goodness.

hang in there

xxxx

[cass]

thinking of you and hoping for the best. i will light the prayer candle for you tonight.

[Sparkle]

Sounds like it's all going really well to me Thalia. Good for you for getting the info. out of the horrible doc. Think they just feel that we should leave all the medical stuff up to them, but unfortunately for them, most of us arm ourselves with as much info. about this as possible. Fingers & toes crossed.

[wessel]

Thalia, in my unfortunately vast experience, smaller follicles that are within 4mm of the largest tend to become part of the cohort that gets retrieved. Your largest is 16, which means that the 12 and 13 have a good chance of catching up and being in the race. Clinics have different standards regarding size of largest follicle before triggering. I had one asshole (Dr. Evil) who always triggered when the largest was 16, which is okay for that size follicle as it is mature, but it cut all the smaller guys out of the game. Your RE's are clearly not triggering you that early since you are at 16 already and they are having you come back later. My guess is that your largest will be at least 18 and probably 20 at your next u/s. If your little guys grow at a steady pace, they should be around 16 at that time. Does that make sense? So I think you should be looking at 5 and possibly 6 mature follicles at time of trigger. Also, that 11 could catch up too. It may only be a size 14mm at retrieval, but, RE's have told me that they frequently do get mature eggs out of smaller follicles (at least a size 14 though).

I'm sorry that your doctors are being such pig heads. I know what that feels like, and it's awful on top of everything else. Wishing for the best for you!

[wessel]

Sorry, I don't think I was very clear! In the later stages of stimulation, follicles can grow 2mm per day, and I have even had follicles grow 3 and 4mm in a single day right before trigger. So if you are not going back until Wed, that's 2 days left to grow. I could definitely see your 16's being 20's by then, and your 12 being a 16. Anything more than 14 is good!

The reason they have tighter restrictions on follicle size and number prior to okaying trigger for IUI's is just as an above poster pointed out--they have hysteria about multiple gestation, and in IUI, you can't control the number of follicles that might release and get fertilized. With IVF, you can control the number of embryos transferred. However, they do seem to be creating a catch 22 for some women: too many follicles for IUI and too few follicles for IVF! CRAZY.

[Shish]

Hi Thalia-Thanks for visiting my blog the other day. This is my first visit to yours, and it sounds like you're about 3 weeks ahead of me with your IVF cycle. Is this your first? I'm in my last week of the pill, and I'm starting Lupron injections this week.

I have my fingers crossed that your follicles mature in the next few days. I know what you're going through, having had 5 failed IUIs myself. My thoughts are with you, and I hope to read about a wonderful outcome here in about 2 weeks.

[Kimmer]

Hope you get some good news on Wednesday.
Grow follies GROW! Good luck, thinking of you!

[Nico]

I've also been told 2mm/day growth for follicles, so I definitely think your 11+ will be good to go by Weds. It sounds like the doctor is a complete ass, and I'm so sorry that he is adding more stress to this! Impressed with you pushing him and getting the answers you wanted though!

[mm]

Your stats look good to me. Sounds like you'll have enough to retrieve. Mind you, I'm not an RE, but I do play one in Blogland. Sorry your doctor is such a monumental prick but good for you for insisting upon more info. Don't let him get away with that BS. Good luck and keep us posted!!!

[Kath]

Blossoming thoughts! Blossoming thoughts! And as much succour as I can send through the ether.

I'm sorry this has to be such a nail biter, Thalia. And I'm sorry your doctor was such a bleep, when what you need right now is a big dose of TLC. Keeping everything crossed for tomorrow.

[nina]

i hope everything works out thalia.
i received the messages you left on my blog- thanks so much for your concern.
the past week has been a bit of nightmare, and i just haven't been able to get my thoughts organized.
i'm rooting for you.

[elle]

Glad to hear your follies are rallying - go eggies, go!

[zhl]

I think your numbers sound good. I hate the "We'll just tell her what we want her to know" doctors too. I hope you get some more information. There's so little control in any of this that knowing as much as we can does offer comfort.

Grow, follies, grow.

[Liz]

Oh Thalia, the whole process is SO frustrating. I hate it when doctors can't be more upfront.

Don't lose hope...for some reason once they reach 13mm they tend to slow down but even if you only have 1 or 2 at 17mm when you trigger it will give the others a boost.

Sending lots of grow follies grow vibes your way!

[Anna]

Just wanted to wish you luck for your blood and scan on Wednesday. Grow little follicles, GROW! : )

[Lori]

Not knowing much about the details - I'll just have to content myself with wishing you the best. From what others have said, it sounds like you're in good shape. I'll be rooting for you!!

[Julianna]

I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you. I so hope that you get good news tomorrow.

[Tiffanni]

Good luck at your scan today!